Philippine Airforce - One of the weakest in the world

[Tarmac]

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Our company in MEPZ is into manufacturing composite kit-planes which could be very useful for training considering that airplanes that are made from composite materials outweighs the advantages with the ones made of metal sheets. Philippine Airforce approached our company around 2-3 years ago because they are planning to purchase the Legacy Fixed Gear for training. Up to now wala gihapon update.

Currently we have Colombian Airforce personnels who are undergoing training in our company because their government has invested millions in making 25 kit planes for the Colombian airforce.

siguro the Philippine airforce or the Philippine gov't hasn't seen its necessity as of the moment, but when that time comes we'll be occupied with helping other countries building their planes coz after the Colombians, there's the Nigerian airforce and others.

The Philippine National Police actually bought a number of four-seat fixed-gear Lancair ES in the 90's for training. I don't know where they are now because the PNP presently flies Cessna 150s. One issue raised against the ES was durability--whether the planes could take the daily grind of endless takeoffs and landings in the hands of students. They are good planes in their own right but were not built to be trainers. They are also high-performance aircraft which means they are not as forgiving of mistakes as the Cessnas.

The PAF recently got 15 Cessna T-41 Mescalero trainers donated by the South Korean Air Force. That's why they haven't bought Lancair Legacy FGs.

[salbahis]

The plane was bought for the token sum of $100 perhaps to circumvent complex rules about donation of military hardware to a foreign government, which the transaction practically was. It doesn't mean the aircraft was worth $100. The PAF also acquired another F-5 from Taiwan in exchange for a non-flyable P-51 Mustang that was on static display in one of the air bases.

The Balikatan crash in 2002 was the one that convinced the air force to retire the aircraft. It was caused by structural failure, not pilot error. During the overhead break in the landing pattern at Clark, the horizontal stabilizer separated and the plane dove straight to the ground, headed for a public school. The pilot, Capt. Policarpio did not eject, perhaps attempting all the while to keep the wayward plane from crashing into the school buildings.

perhaps i was wrong about the pilot error, AFAIK, they are put in a mothballed status (according to fellow timawan member who had connections from PAF), meaning they will be put back to service if necessary, and AFAIK, it was the cost of maintenance that really made the F5 put to a mothballed status... perhaps that crash contributed to one of the reason... we could have reha*****ed the airframe if we don't have any budget constraints

I notice a lot of people here say aircraft donated by other countries are junk. Sure they're old inventory but when they enter service with the PAF they are reconditioned to like-new condition. However, budget constraints usually mean the air force is unable to maintain them in flying status for long.

A lot of guys don't realize the average age of a lot of USAF aircraft is over 30 years old. Many of the KC-135s, B-52s and C-130s on the inventory are a lot older than the pilots flying them. Unlike us however, the United States has the ability and resources to maintain those aging aircraft.

true, a bad misconception to some people, it's sad that because it is donated it's old or junk... geez!!!, any structural problem to the airframe can be solve by proper maintenace else it is B.E.R., even our UH-1 have undergone to modern specification they are not the same old UH-1 design...

some of us are used of seeing over the internet about modern MRF and latest mil hardware... that's why it was used as basis that our planes are old, they maybe old but they still kick some butt...

in a coin operation a prop-plane has an advantage that a jet plane...

consider this we ask for modern or interim fighter

The cost of ownership, considering we bought a couple of it...
- maintenance and parts replacement
- technicians and pilots training
- fuel
- armaments
- bombs
- AA
- ATG
- etc

there are lot of things to consider before we get an MRF...

[ritsche villadolid]

yes weak gyud ang phils sa aerial combat

[poy]

tinood....maunay pa man gani ang mga pinoy citizens sa palpak nga equipments.....it's not about the mean and women in service ha.....more on the system side and including the managment

[mata_hari]

The Philippine National Police actually bought a number of four-seat fixed-gear Lancair ES in the 90's for training. I don't know where they are now because the PNP presently flies Cessna 150s. One issue raised against the ES was durability--whether the planes could take the daily grind of endless takeoffs and landings in the hands of students. They are good planes in their own right but were not built to be trainers. They are also high-performance aircraft which means they are not as forgiving of mistakes as the Cessnas.

The PAF recently got 15 Cessna T-41 Mescalero trainers donated by the South Korean Air Force. That's why they haven't bought Lancair Legacy FGs.

Our company is no longer making ES... some countries are purchasing the Legacy FG for training... to cater to our costumers, we have modified the Legacy's FG wing and made it 18 more inches wider, we are actually calling it Synergy now. And yeah, ES' are quite expensive compared with the Legacy, when it comes to durability i think our planes are far better off than Cessna's coz metal sheets sila while ours are Composite aircrafts, which i think is more durable and they are more easy to fix.

[Tarmac]

And yeah, ES' are quite expensive compared with the Legacy, when it comes to durability i think our planes are far better off than Cessna's coz metal sheets sila while ours are Composite aircrafts, which i think is more durable and they are more easy to fix.

I don't know about the last part. Sheet metal is easy to work with and the expertise is common. All A&P's are proficient with sheet metal work. Working with composites is a whole new ballgame.

At least with composites you won't have problems with corrosion... just delamination and other new failure modes.

I have a friend who used to specialize in building Lancair Legacy airframes for customers. He also made modifications and upgrades for the aircraft. Really slick stuff. Winglets, fairings (as if the Legacy needed them), glass cockpit instrumentation...

I guess in the case of the Synergy, the Legacy wing was made larger to make it more docile? And with fixed gear it should be more durable and able to stand up to endless touch-and-go cycles.

[piggychan]

I was wondering why we cant afford to buy modern jets and helicopter gunships when we are have treat from the separatist in the south and NPA rebels..

Pinoy pilots were not killed on combat but due to crashes from donated aircraft.

Other poor countries such as in Vietnam, Bangladesh & some countries has better aircraft than our PAF.

Im just confuse.. lolz..

heres why..

- Average unit costs exceed $100 million
- Longer production runs do not always equate to lower unit costs
- International cooperation does not necessarily lead to savings
- One fighter is worth its weight in gold, three are worth their weight in caviar

[salbahis]

yes weak gyud ang phils sa aerial combat

i don't think so..., we are a very good in aerial combat except lang kung ang combat is BVR which is goes down to techonological aspect of the combat, we may not have good planes but we have damn good pilot...

my uncle who once serve as F5 pilot, if you can fly and land plane then you are a god damn good pilot...

[salbahis]

heres why..

- Average unit costs exceed $100 million
- Longer production runs do not always equate to lower unit costs
- International cooperation does not necessarily lead to savings
- One fighter is worth its weight in gold, three are worth their weight in caviar

to add.... and make it short... the cost of ownership....

[dmcebu]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa kadaghang General sa Philippine Air Force unya walay airplane? Mora manig village nga polos Chief wala nay ultimo magilog nis airplane inig palupad sa mga Generals,..............bwahahhahhaa