RELIGION....(part 2)

[ichor_82283]

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R0manS 8:

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[aphrodite]

In matters of controversy, speak in love

Correct. For if someone knew even the most profound mysteries and secrets of God, even if he can prophesy or debate plausibly, if he has not love he is nothing. Without love he would be like a clanging cymbal (See 1 Cor. 13)

Cor.13 is one of my most favorite scriptures from the bible.. aside from the Psalms of David and some parts of the Philippians and Romans.

[shoeless_rebel]

i believe in god but i don't believe in the church as an establishment and as a system. and i don't believe in the christian tradition of obsolete rituals and obvious hypocrisy.

You mean you don't believe in the church's teachings? or to make it clear, the Roman Catholic Church's Catechism?
or to any other churches' ?
Because whether St. Peter's Basilica exists or not, the church still exists. As the church refers to those People of God
who share the same belief in Christ and are in communion with Him whatever religion they may be associated with.
Probably, you belong to the same Church.

i said the church as an"establishment" and as a "system" or do i have to make it clearer?

[dead_soul]

A person is simply a Theist if he believes in a god but doesn't identify himself with any particular religious group...

.. too many definitions. Too many religions. Bottom line: there's only One God. I dont want to waste my time trying to define my "affiliation" with my religion. I was baptized a Roman Catholic, have to accept it, i live my life the way i like it, i dont know if its the Roman Catholic way or not. All i know is im honest with myself. Im a sinner, yes, my soul is burning at the moment. Am i evil?? yes, very. Am i apathetic? damn sure am. When it comes to religion, i dont give a single care to what or which religion a person is in. And to those who try to "define", sorry, but i treat you as hypocrites.

Ah... you remind me of the Prince of Air... the Morning Star... Anton La Vey

[seth_kahn]

i said the church as an"establishment" and as a "system" or do i have to make it clearer?

yes, make it clearer...
Because whether you like it or not, the church is already established as a system or group of
people who share the same belief. Just as a government is a system comprising of the nation - refer to people
and the laws that govern this people.
The very fact that the Roman Catholic Church is headed by a Pope and other churches headed by their
leaders as well makes a church a system, and not just a system but an organised system established upon their faith.

Perhaps what you don't believe in is the way that governs a church or probably
the laws that shape beliefs of a church such as its teachings..
or most probably you believe in the church as a system but not the system that is in the church.

More PeaceÂ* Â*

[mannyamador]

The Bible is the only and Final authority.

How do you KNOW that? Tell me, WHO decided what books should be in the Bible? Who did the evaluation? Who put it together?

Did God Himself come to you and give you a Bible? NO HE DIDN'T.

You got the Bible because the Catholic Church put it together and decided which books were to be in it. Therefore, the Bible's authority rests on the authority of the Church to decide what should be in it it. If you deny the authoryt oif the Catholic Church, you deny the authority of the Bible. PERIOD.

The Bible or to be more specific and near to the TRUTH--- THE WORD OF GOD is totally sufficient as the complete RULE of FAITH.

That is a teaching that IS NOT found anywhere in the Bible. Please show me the EXPLICIT verses stating your claim. You CAN'T.

[mannyamador]

oh for cryin out loud, jesus was not the founder of the catholic church. katolikos know your religion history for chrissakes!

You seem to be quite ignorant of your history. It is YOU who should be doing some reading. Perhaps you may want to regale us with some of your fantasies aboiut who founded the Church.

[Cardinal Bunal]

That is a teaching that IS NOT found anywhere in the Bible. Please show me the EXPLICIT verses stating your claim. You CAN'T.

The RCC didn't gather it together... God's people did, they didn't decide the Canon, they only reaffirmed that which was already known and did that in the 3rd century.

The documents were already even compiled as early as the first century Anno Domini.

Isaiah writes because the Spirit has gathered them altogether, there is nothing lacking and we may look into it for guidance. The Book. The Scroll. - Isaiah 34: 16 (NAB: The New Catholic Translation)

[mannyamador]

The RCC didn't gather it together... God's people did, they didn't decide the Canon, they only reaffirmed that which was already known and did that in the 3rd century.

What "God's People" group are you blathering about? The Catholic Church did and eliminated the errors (there were a LOT of spurious books). It did so in several Church Councils presaided over by Catholic Church bishops and Popes. You DON'T know your history.

The documents were already even compiled as early as the first century Anno Domini.

Wrong. Please cite the document with the complete, accurate, and approved canon existing in the first century. You CAN'T because none existed.

[Cardinal Bunal]

What "God's People" group are you blathering about? The Catholic Church did and eliminated the errors (there were a LOT of spurious books). It did so in several Church Councils presaided over by Catholic Church bishops and Popes. You DON'T know your history.

I do....... well, did they now? Assuming that they did (which they didn't) they still accepted the errors of many so-called letters and epistles and those kinds of teachings have been built-up from back then... to today.

What "God's People" group are you blathering about?

The first generation Christians......

Wrong. Please cite the document with the complete, accurate, and approved canon existing in the first century. You CAN'T because none existed.

What you would call the "Catholic Letters" (Pauline epistles), the 4 Gospels...... Revelation wasn't written yet but Paul said even his epistles contained enough information and didn't leave people in the darkness regarding salvation (1 Cor. 15: 2 ) But even when the documents were complete there was still some confusion going on and this went on until 170 A.D. when things were decisive, up to a long, long stretch of 50 years to 220 A.D. even, so the RCC is still a century/ a hundred plus years away!