RELIGION....(part 2)

[seth_kahn]

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In other words, it is NOT assured. Thanks.

Well... you are correct.

Can one say If I died at this moment, would I go to Heaven? YES, I will... if he indeed died at that moment doing just okay and living that Christian life called for, then he sure will... but if he professes that - but dies 10 years later, without the knowledge of how he lives and treads on this earth on that period of time, can we be sure that the person will be saved? NO. Unless he lived it right, there's no problem, the Kingdom he will receive...

BUT, the Bible tells us we can discern if someone has salvation or NOT (1 Jn 5: 13 ) and because of Christ, we can be sure of it... what is NOT assured is if that someone will maintain working out that salvation (working out NOT working for) or will he backslip and choose the path of the astray. This calls to mind the parable of the four kinds of soil...

It CAN be assured... what cannot be assured is if a person chooses to maintain his Life (in other words, maintain Christ Jn 11: 25 ) or will he eventually choose the way of death through temptation, emotional problems, et cetera, that is what is uncertain.

Again, we can know that we have eternal life..... But can salvation be maintained? Only that particular person's faith, shown through his actions and deeds and shown through love can dictate. Or if his actions cannot please God, then he has a sinful mind, that is hostile to God and we know that there is no salvation in that.

but what is HEAVEN? and what is HELL?
First and foremost, neither HEAVEN nor HELL is a place.. But rather a state.
HEAVEN is a state of happiness and HELL, a state of SUFFERING...
If you die happy and at peace, then you're in HEAVEN..
If you die sinful, guilty then you're in HELL..
and forever you will be..because as souls, or as entities without the physical matter, you'll
never feel remorseful...It is through the senses that we feel sorry and remorseful...

so it all boils down to...HOW CAN WE DIE HAPPY or AT PEACE so that WE CAN BE SAVED or
WE CAN GO TO HEAVEN?

Simple. Through good works manifested through how we treat other peoples and ourselves.
But how can we do good works...We can only do good works if we have been trained
or inculcated with VALUES..right?
but when and where and how are we inculcated with VALUES?
When the right religion or community or organization or the right teachings are provided or introduced to us...throughout our
earthly lifetime...

and HOW? Through the GIFTS of the HOLY SPIRIT and its ENLIGHTENMENT, we are able to absorb the right teachings
and the right VALUES...THE HOLY SPIRIT enlightens those with OPEN minds and SOULS..those who are open to its
teachings.

Conclusion: GOOD WORKS + FAITH help a great deal to DIE HAPPY and at PEACE!!!! That is what matters.

I agree with Cardinal Bunal Â*:mrgreen:

[mannyamador]

It only became another church two centuries later

That's a wacky claim that you have NOT been able to prove all this time. Kindly show us the evidence. You're big on claims but ZERO witrh proof.

And while you're at it maybe you could show us evidence of the xistence of the real church today. or is that yet another one of your fantasies?

[mannyamador]

Also the body's unity does not do away with the DIVERSITY of its members. The CHURCH does not refer to the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH nor to the ANGLICAN CHURCH nor to the GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH etc...but it refers to all
those people who believe in HIM.

So are you saying that this "church" or "people of god" can hold contradictory beliefs? Those who "believe in Him" believe a lot of CONTRADICTORY things about Him (who He is, what He is, His nature, what He did, etc.).

[Cardinal Bunal]

So are you saying that this "church" or "people of god" can hold contradictory beliefs? Those who "believe in Him" believe a lot of CONTRADICTORY things about Him (who He is, what He is, His nature, what He did, etc.).

That's why there is a Standard of judgment............ an analogy would be the different Roman Catholic Churches in a vicinity. One may be disobedient to the Pope's mandate of the duration of the homily... in another church, there may be incompetent musicians in the choir, and another will hold baptisms DURING mass for the sake of keeping people in longer. But without the Pope's authority or the Bishop's imprimaturthingymagigs we wouldn't know HOW to judge these different congregations in a diocese would we?

The standard for judging "church" wasn't even completed before 100 A.D. but it was already taking shape. And even if the forces of the Roman church witheld it for a time (yes they did), now it is available to all so there's no excuse to say "we're blind so not guilty."

Even amongst those who have departed from the unfaithful Babylon, there are those who still distort scripture regarding issues of the call of thier flesh, lust and hedonism because it is the TRUTH they want to see, that is why God sends them the strong power of error. - 2 Thes. 2: 11

[seth_kahn]

So are you saying that this "church" or "people of god" can hold contradictory beliefs? Those who "believe in Him" believe a lot of CONTRADICTORY things about Him (who He is, what He is, His nature, what He did, etc.).

Â* I am saying that the Church that is the People of God share the same beliefs and in communion with God. Do not our
brothers in the Greek Orthodox Church believe in God? Yes, they believe in God.In our Lord Jesus Christ.
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/ar...rticle7063.asp

If I would want to, I would call Him THE FORCE. Whatever you call HIM, as long as you refer to the
same entity, that is all the same. If you ask what or who is this entity, We do not know as it is very complicated and our limited knowledge won't let us grasp what or who He is entirely. But we know for sure that He is also all
that is good. LOVE,PEACE,HAPPINESS,UNITY and HARMONY etc. These are the attributes of God. So whatever church, religion,
organization, institution you may belong, as long as they proclaim the Goodness of God, the Word of God, you are a member
of the True Church of Jesus Christ, the People Of God who are in communion with His Body.

It is only through our interpretations and through our traditions and practices that we differ.
Probably, there may be some things about our beliefs in God that differ from them. In fact, there may be things
that we do not know about Him that they know. But it no longer matters. We have our own religion that we believe
will also help us achieve holiness and goodness and peace and in effect salvation, right.
People from other churches or religion also believe that the religion they choose is the right religion for them and yet
has brought them peace,goodness and salvation. That is what matters..

[h00ters]

oh you people talk like you know god--nobody knows god, nothing, zip, nada.

[seth_kahn]

true....nobody knows what or who God really is

[tingkagol]

God is not something you will ever understand from reading a 10-page article, or even reading the Bible. Instead, in time, He will reveal Himself before your eyes, and your eyes ALONE.

...and to each his own. One's perception will NEVER be a carbon copy of another.

the end. Sleep well tonight.

[mannyamador]

The standard for judging "church" wasn't even completed before 100 A.D. but it was already taking shape. And even if the forces of the Roman church witheld it for a time (yes they did), now it is available to all so there's no excuse to say "we're blind so not guilty."

More fantasies? No such "hidden standard" exists. There is only one truth. That is in the historical record. Jesus founded the Catholic Church and gave it authority. You seem to dream there was another church, but you have ZERO evidence to prove this wacky claim.

Kindly provide the historical evidence. In all this time, you have been unable to even give one teeny tiny bit of proof. That's probably because you have NONE.

[ichor_82283]

Quick reply:

I agree with Seth... The Church of the Living God are His people. I am currently finding the exact verse in the book of Revelations...wherein John the beloved referred God's people as His BRIDE!

True. The Church of the Living God is HIs people and soon as His bride.

....

The Bible is the only and Final authority.

If the Bible can't stand by itself then it is not God's word neither does it represent as God's word.

In the book of Revelations, in its remaining verses...

It says in there that whoever omits and adds to the Holy Scripture will receive its punishment.

....

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith.

This maybe refuted by the RC's but I'll have to quote it again in 2 Timothy 3:16... That explains.

....

The Bible or to be more specific and near to the TRUTH--- THE WORD OF GOD is totally sufficient as the complete RULE of FAITH.

What is man that he can and will add up to GOD'S WORD?

What authority does man possess that GOD'S WORD IS NOT SUFFICIENT AS THE COMPLETE RULE OF FAITH?

Will the explanations of man and its "traditions" supersedes GOD'S WORD?

WHO GAVES FAITH?