MERGED: Do You Want U.S. Statehood For the Philippines?

[FK]

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mao... would America be willing to make the Philippines it's state? Adto na lang sa Iraq kay daghan pa og Oil.

Maybe this idea of U.S. statehood nagpakita lang ni sa ato pagka Colonial mentality.

[josephdc]

If the problem is our Culture.. then the introduction of another culture would be the best remedy, right?

I agree that ours is a damaged culture, but I don't think that the remedy lies in adapting another one. I think that will only confuse us even more. We shouldn't discard our culture, because it is all that we have, it is what defines us as a people. Without it, we have no identity as a nation. And this is, in fact, the reality, as we all know: We seem not to know who we are. We have no sense of being a Filipino, of being a unique race, of having ideals separate and unique from other ethnic races in the world. We are drifting. So the solution is not to discard our culture, but to fix it. I don't know how, but we must fix it, we have no other choice. We must promote our own culture, our own identity. If we adapt others' we would totally forget who we are, we would lose our uniqueness, our roots...

Point is.. we won't be treated as 2nd rate citizens... we'll share the same benefits as other under the American flag. I have the privilege of having stayed in several states.. although tinuod nga naay discrimination but only the ignorant ones do that.. mga rednecks mostly.

What really concerns me if, for the sake of argument, ma-himu tang state sa US, is our identity. Mawala jud atong culture, i mean it's true nga wala na'y klaro atong culture karun daan (a lot of pinoys want to be Americans, or they want to act like Americans, they want to ape what they see in the television), pero musamut pa jud ni if ma-assimilate ta sa US. Like I said in a previous post, the country's doors will be open ever more widely to foreign influence, to foreign mass media, etc., and we know ra ba nga American popular culture is very decadent...

Another thing, Americans have different behaviors, values, etc., so kung imo isagul na sila with us Filipinos, gubot ang resulta. Filipinos and Americans will find it hard to live with each other. The two nations have different histories, different traditions, what is normal behavior for kanos, for example, may be shocking to pinoys. Another example, kanang pagka-frank sa mga kano, they might be offensive to pinoys. Another, the issue of *** is not taboo for Americans, pero for Filipinos that is a very sensitive subject. Filipinos are also very religious, while Americans necessarily aren't. What I'm saying is, if these two nations live beside each other (ug mao mana, di ba, ang mahitabo if ma-state ta, as more and more Americans will go here and most likely reside here?), there will be a clash of values, beliefs.

[gareb]

EZRA:

:arrow: lisud jud. our culture is what we are. but to practically reject and throw away the entire filipino culture will do more harm than good. the sense of identity as a people is lost. you do not kill a person just because he has a serious disease. you try and find means to fix him, not kill him. to abandon our culture entirely is to abandon our identity, our past, and the diamonds that are underneath the tons of mud. :mrgreen:

:arrow: we are looked down upon even now nga dili pa gani ta amerikano. adto sa american embassy, they treat u as dirt. and we honestly believe that they can accept us as one of them? and as if we would?

:arrow: nope, it is not just about presidents. u know this. its not the figureheads on top. its the pre-negotiated agreements, insincere pacts, subtle oppression, bullying tactics, selfish greed and pride of the father image againts it's foster child.

:arrow: it can be viewed that way. but it also is a testament that the people can move and will move... problem is... sometimes the direction to where they will move can be manipulated by the few that are behind the curtains of power... from the very same class of the deposed. pwe!

I hope people realizes this.. pero as long as daghan magpa bilin nga ignorante ug magpa bongol-bongol, wa gyuy kapa-ingnan

apathy and callousness will facilitate the continued oppression that we, the filipino people, suffer from the hands of the elite in power.

it is just too bad that some people will rather stick to them to benefit fron the crumbs thrown at them.

this is the scenario that is emerging behind the call for us to assimilate with the US.

[EZRA]

Joseph: Have you thought about the pros of being a State?

Behaviors, cultures, traits, etc... that's the least of the country's problems. People can easily adapt. People can get used to what's given to them (especially if they have not much choice on the matter). Look... Filipinos are used to living hard, why? `cause they don't have much choice.
Tan-awn sab nimo... there's a lot of Filipinos diri sa America. Sa Cali, Jersey, and New York nagkalata lang ang pinoy. Yet the clash of beliefs and values isn't that much of a big deal... and as far as *** issues, the Philippines are really catching up with the *** Bomb girls and the Otso Otso in MTB. The bootleg porns, the skimpy movies which doesn't show much talent but more on the skin, etc...


Like you said... our culture is damaged yet it is what defines a Filipino. As what you've wrote on your first paragraph, a Filipino is already confused as it is. SO, if you're concerned na mawala atung culture, it's not much of a loss is it? Damaged naman gyud and wala pa gyuy klaro. Plus, as you've said, people are so enamored by the ways of the western world.. it's not much of a change then.

But seriously... it's right that the Filipino culture has been tainted by the country's events for the last 30 or so years. It's true that the ways of a typical Filipino needs a makeover.. question is, when will this happen and how?

[gareb]

josephdc:

edsa 1&2 were/are both ineffectual as the very same people that are behind marcos, are also behind cory... in fact they belong to the same company... the elite. the power plays are practically limited to this small circle. the opinion of the people are being influenced by the media whose control also relies on some of those coming from the very same class.

it is self serving really. the people did not benefit from either movements. what we get was the illusion that we were free and that we have finally freed ouselves from the grasp of corruption and that change is at hand....when in fact everything was the same as it was... more subtler though. that can be either better or worse.

i cannot help but compare this to the declaration of philippine independence at kawit. we thought we were free from the duress of the americans... but we never did... even now.

and now we are calling to be under the american aegis... the sheer irony of it all is appalling.

but can't justice be achieved without violence? basin naa jud siguro'y way uy nga maka-kuha ta ug justice, ang mga pobre, without violently colliding with the interests of the elite. i mean, within the law ba, if mu-work lang ta within what is legal, to achieve justice, to take from the elite what is rightfully the people's (for example, land; or, in the case of the coco levy, money), i think possible mana ba.

not when *they* are the ones who are in power. not when the very same elites that make laws and administer them are the very ones who have large haciendas, anc controls the bulk of the country's wealth.

reality check lang.

they will forever protect themselves. this, my friend, is the root of the corruption. they will forever divert, distort, place loopholes, corrupt and eventually render law ineffectual just to protect their interests. they even make anti-people laws. the list is amazingly long.

it is hard to try the very same people who will give u the verdict of the trial. it will just be absurd. :mrgreen:

just as i have said, violence is the last resort... but if this arrangement continues, how can we blame those people who are receiving the blunt of this injustice from resorting to violence? it may seem wrong, but eventually there may be no other way if this is not addressed soon enough.

[EZRA]

Gareb: not much to reject is it? The present culture I mean... the old fashioned Filipino is what needs to be preserved but that is non-existent. Bati kaayo ang pag evolve sa Filipino culture.. ug tan-awn nimo karon, makapangutana gyud kas imong kaugalingon.. WHAT HAPPENED? ..... as far as our present culture goes: Would you want to keep what you have right now? Would you like being identified as such?
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They have reasons to be like that sa embassy... part of the screening process I guess. I was lucky that they were never harsh on me despite of my name. Although naay gyuy loopholes ang screening nila (kasulod man gani si Muhammad Atta, na approved pa gyud ang renewal sa iyang Visa after the 9/11) pero they have to do what they can to maintain that screening process and standard.
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Lahi man diri... when the Administration changes, daghang ma usab. Pero again... all the pacts and agreements can't be all blamed towards one side.
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Mao lagi... people wil move (pero gi duot sa laing naay kusog who's got ulterior motives) .. resulta, wa gihapoy ayo.
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[LytSlpr]

@gareb: please don't justify our failures, it is our fault & it's like a curse. idealism is good but let's be realistic & accept the fact that most our countrymen are already like this & the chance for change is very slim. we always blame other people of our misery, from corrupt politicians, to opportunist foreigners but if you really come to think of it the real core of the disease is our country's citizenry, not the government & that's the bottomline.

[gareb]

LytSlpr:

nope i am not giving justifications for our failures. i am not giving excuses and saying that it its not our own fault that we are this way. what i am trying to say is that the exigencies that we face today could have been averted if we have seen the things that could have helped us solve all of this. what i am giving is an analysis and a suggestion of a point of action that can prove beneficialm, based on concrete analysis of the situation that we are currently embroiled in.

idealism without action is futile. action without ideological guidance will lead to nowhere. we have not learned this. EDSA is an example of that. we had the wrong analysis of the situation. idealism must never be alien towards reality and vice versa. but it seems now that we have blindedly followed the very same people who are leading us to our own doom.

we always blame other people of our misery, from corrupt politicians, to opportunist foreigners but if you really come to think of it the real core of the disease is our country's citizenry, not the government & that's the bottomline.

but as i have stated, the blame is not just solely on them. it is wit us too. yet we must never discount the role that these variables have in the current situation of the society. we might have not seen, or ignored the blatant signs, or the lessons that history has taught us, and this may be the reason why we would rather have ourselves bear the full blame of the situation... to the extent of self-pity and loss of the sense of self worth. and because of this we will forever repeat the very same mistakes that our forbears have experienced... because for a simple fact that we fail to learn from their mistakes.

we must consider the fact that one institution cannot change if another institution that is in its immediate realm would not. each and everything affects another. the dealings of the government affects the people and vice versa. yet the government has the upperhand since it is vested with the legal authority. it can change the outlook of the people. it can mold the people into better, more intelligent individuals... but it wont. because basically to do so would mean to undermine the people, the class that is currently having the upper hand.

so much lies have been spread even about our history. the malefactor we consider the benefactor. the oppressor we consider as the liberator... does it seem odd to you that us, being what seems to be the closest ally america ever had in asia, except perhaps for israel and japan, is lagging far behind. culture? yes. economic manipulation to benefit the foreign capitalists? ditto. japan has resisted it and have fluorished. we have not and we are doomed.

the people in this counrty fail to realize that the power to change is in their hands. the power to change the government.

i blame the people, especially the educated ones for not being able to see the cause of this great quagmire that we are trapped in. i lament the fact thatr even the intellectuals of this country serve the powers that be and make themselves unwitting tools of the propagation of the power of the elite.

but the more do i blame the government because it is supposed to be that instution that uplifts the conditions of the citizenry, open their minds to change... but fails to do so. why? the people in at the high places, which happens to be the rich few cannot afford that the broad population be empowered and take over. they would rather have us know nothing... servile robots to their whims... manipulated even by the estate that embodies free speech and liberty; the media. now THAT is a problem.

it is so clear... yet i often ask myself why it is not so to many.

[patoy]

yes

[josephdc]

you do not kill a person just because he has a serious disease. you try and find means to fix him, not kill him. to abandon our culture entirely is to abandon our identity, our past, and the diamonds that are underneath the tons of mud.

Mao jud.

Joseph: Have you thought about the pros of being a State?

Yes. I listen to radio commentaries on it occasionally. But their arguments really don't convince me. I think that they got their premise right (that corruption is dragging us down to the depths of the abyss), but their conclusion (that therefore we should ask the US to make the Philippines its state) is wrong. I believe, as I've said, that the root of our crises lies in the fact that we have no sense of country. This yearning by some of our people for the country to be assimilated with the US is just an expression of this lack of a sense of country. So to dwell on that yearning will only further drag us down. Though we may get material benefits if we become a US state, I believe the costs for us would be infinitely greater. The costs would be our national identity, culture, and sovereignty (we would lose the power to chart our own destinies). What kind of a country is it that don't have its own national identity, its own culture, its own sovereignty? Under US statehood our economic needs might be met (granting the ideal is fulfilled), but we would have no soul as a people, because we would have lost already our national identity, we would've already turned our backs on our past completely, on the dreams our heroes had for us. National identity, sovereignty, culture, etc., these are not mere abstract ideas. They are not unimportant at all. I really believe that's the reason why our Asian neighbors have moved so far ahead of us while we have moved just as far in the opposite direction -- because they took these concepts very seriously while we have only taken them for granted.

About the "clash of values", that it's no big deal there in the US, it may only be true for some Pinoys there, I don't think the same can be said for the Filipino nation as a whole. Most of us here still cling to values that are relatively conservative. About *** issues, you mentioned us catching up with the "*** Bomb" girls etc. As you know, that's decadence! A lot of American pop culture is no less decadent.

About culture, like what Gareb said, you don't abandon your culture because it's damaged -- that would be to abandon your identity, to throw away the thing that defines you, to discard the only thing that can get you out of the rut you're in -- you fix it. Makaingun lang ta nga it's not much of a loss if we lose it kay what we see is the damaged culture man, underneath that are the diamonds, to borrow Gareb's metaphor. Makaingun lang ta ana kay wala man nato na-feel o na-experience ang mga "diamonds" nato nga we've forgotten we have -- we are alienated from our past, we have lost touch of who we were, of the traditions and practices we've kept, of the things we sang about, of the poems we wrote about, of the concerns we shared with each other, of the values and ideals we treasured, etc. -- so we feel we have nothing to lose.

edsa 1&2 were/are both ineffectual as the very same people that are behind marcos, are also behind cory... in fact they belong to the same company... the elite. the power plays are practically limited to this small circle. the opinion of the people are being influenced by the media whose control also relies on some of those coming from the very same class.

it is self serving really. the people did not benefit from either movements. what we get was the illusion that we were free and that we have finally freed ouselves from the grasp of corruption and that change is at hand....when in fact everything was the same as it was... more subtler though. that can be either better or worse.

Right. That's what I said.

not when *they* are the ones who are in power. not when the very same elites that make laws and administer them are the very ones who have large haciendas, anc controls the bulk of the country's wealth.

reality check lang.

they will forever protect themselves. this, my friend, is the root of the corruption. they will forever divert, distort, place loopholes, corrupt and eventually render law ineffectual just to protect their interests. they even make anti-people laws. the list is amazingly long.

it is hard to try the very same people who will give u the verdict of the trial. it will just be absurd.
just as i have said, violence is the last resort... but if this arrangement continues, how can we blame those people who are receiving the blunt of this injustice from resorting to violence? it may seem wrong, but eventually there may be no other way if this is not addressed soon enough.

I agree.