MERGED: Do You Want U.S. Statehood For the Philippines?

[gareb]

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Struggle through non-violent means.

But when you said "radical", and that there must be an "overhaul" of things in society, doesn't it mean armed revolution? How can a radical change, an overhaul of things in society happen without violence? Or how can an act be radical and at the same time non-violent?

i will throw back the question to you. and on top of that is the idea that all along, we have waged fake "revolutions" (EDSA 1,2,3... 10), "non-violent revolutions" though was able to change the person on top
but have emerged to be ineffectual in changing the purtid and filthy bureaucratic system.

You are hopeful that change can come without violence, but think that we may have to resort to it if the present downward spiral of the country continues...?

exactly. but it is not that "we will have to resort to violence if the present downward spiral of the country continues"... the fact itself that the elite is *already* instituting violence in the countrysides by militarization, their private armies, and even using the army and the police to guard the vast haciendas that these elite (who incidentally are also the ones in power) own.

the elite will do anything it can to protect itself and the position that it already has now even to the point of using the law itself to discredit and ignore the plight of the filipino "masa" that is suffering from this institutionalized poverty.

we must understand that the peaceful mode of radically changing the society is our primary aim. yet bloodshed will be inevitable if the powers that be will not give in to the outry of the majority. it is time the filipinos woke up from the long disturbing nightmare that he is in... a nightmare that made him believe that he cannot do anything substantial about his own sufferings.

[gareb]

Given that we're under the U.S. Statehood....

:arrow: we will still be treated as second rate citizens. racism is STILL a reality in the states. we cannot expect that we will be treated better.
:arrow: the philippines will become a liability that the US cannot afford. too dense a population, too chaotic the government... they are not about to go around spending billions of dollars in some unsure investments no matter how sweet the label of "helping the less fortunate" or "benevolent assimilation"
:arrow: we cannot even follow OUR OWN laws, how much more can we expect ourselves to follow something that is not our own...
:arrow: to crush these "bandits" that once came up created and supported by the very same government that is trying to annihilate it... and another which as came up as a result of the inequities of the puppet regime... have we really understood the "how's". the "why's" and the "what's" of the things that we want to annihilate?

[gareb]

My point is, people here never learn and are not worth fighting for. In all aspects of life, there is nothing wrong with surrendering when you already tried your best.

we never learn because we only use superficial and temporary remedies or haplas-haplas to the pangs of a cancer that is rooted deep inside the society. we will never learn as long as we fail to realize that to cure the illness and the get rid of the suffering requires us to undergo an invasive and bloody surgery to get rid of the cancer cells that is slowly gnawing us inside.

and no, we have not tried our best. we only commited the very same mistake over and over again. we closed our eyes and ignored the painful truth.

Do you know that if they allow wholly owned foreign firms here do for us poor citizens? Everything will be much, much cheaper, electricity, water, communication, internet, etc. The government should allow foreign players to compete in the basic utitlities business because, anyway these won't affect the Small to Medium businesses and if one is to be considered as a big businessman he should compete globally and not hide under the skirts of legislative protection.

false. it will *not* be cheaper. instead, it will even cost the public more. the main motivation of these private firms is PROFIT. this is the very same thing that led them here in the philippines at the first place.

the government has the sole responsibility of the social welfare of the people because the government exist as an institution that is suppose to provide the people with service. hence the government MUST retain basic social services and not delegate the responsibility to profit-mongering firms.

small and medium scale businesses *WILL* be affected. any slight fluctuation in any of the social services (power, water, food, communications, trasportation, etc.) provided by either the government or any private institution will translate into substantial changes in the economic viability of a nation by directly affecting the economic standing (spending power) of the population, hence indirectly affecting commerce and back to the superstructure of the national economy.

Till then, curse those pigs like Cojuangco, Gatchalian, Tan etc. If you think about it, these people aren't even true blooded Filipinos. It is not that they are any better, they just got hella rich because of circumstance, political friends (which they bought.) and our being submissive.

the very same people (and more of them are left unmentioned) are the ones who are benefiting from the national economy and not the people. Tan=PAL, PNB, etc. Cojuanco=SMB,UCPB,etc. Lopez=ABS-CBN,Maynilad, Manila Water,etc.

[EZRA]

Given that we're under the U.S. Statehood....

:arrow: we will still be treated as second rate citizens. racism is STILL a reality in the states. we cannot expect that we will be treated better.
:arrow: the philippines will become a liability that the US cannot afford. too dense a population, too chaotic the government... they are not about to go around spending billions of dollars in some unsure investments no matter how sweet the label of "helping the less fortunate" or "benevolent assimilation"
:arrow: we cannot even follow OUR OWN laws, how much more can we expect ourselves to follow something that is not our own...
:arrow: to crush these "bandits" that once came up created and supported by the very same government that is trying to annihilate it... and another which as came up as a result of the inequities of the puppet regime... have we really understood the "how's". the "why's" and the "what's" of the things that we want to annihilate?

GAREB... 2nd rate citizens? Think Hawaii .. dense Filipino population.. whites are considered as minorities there .. The Filipinos there aren't treated as 2nd rate citizens at all. How about Puerto Rico?
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If the U.S. Government wants the Philippines to be one of their States... that's their gamble. If they want to risk it, they must have a reason why.
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We cannot follow our own laws... why? one reason is because people can be bribed! People can be bought .. try bribing a cop out of your speeding ticket here.. and you'll spend a week in a cell. To add the fact that the major lawbreakers in the Philippines are the lawmakers themselves, then a more regulated Government might remedy that problem. Do you think a corrupt government official in the U/S Government would last a even a year? Clinton's misdemeanor was made a big deal yet majority of our politicians are adulterous, polygamous and what not.
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That's the thing... people need proper education ... yet only the privileged can afford a good education. Yet even with education.. all the how, why, what questions may not be even tackled since chances are, you may be directly or indirectly savoring the fruits of the present situation. Reason why not everyone would want a change in the near future... `cause why change? while everythings going good for me... to hell with my neighbors.

[gareb]

EZRA:

:arrow: the filipinos *there* at hawaii are not neccesarily treated differently, or at puerto rico for that matter, expet perhaps that we do not know much spanish. but the sitaution changes when one sets foot on the mainland. undercurrents of racism is in every corner. u must have experienced this. ur there, anyhow.

:arrow: but the fact itself that some filipinos are actually doing the initiative is quite ridiculous yet at the same time pathetic. to dismiss something and place the course of an issue on the discretion of another, yet at the same time endorsing and pushing for the said cause is rather confusing.

:arrow: that sense of disregard for the law is deeply rooted in our culture. one cannot just change that with a new set of laws from a foreign land, much less of overlords who do not know the actual situation the philippine nation has found itself into. again, we cannot even follow our own selves, how much more can we follow others?

:arrow: the question is not just about education. it is about understanding why we are what we are and going into the right track to rectify the errors that can still be corrected. avery big part of this is our sense of community; our sense of being a nation. it has suffered so much because of the onslaughts of foreign influences... now is not the right time to trample on the little hope that we have left with an assimilation to the hegemony that is the USA... it will be a move that would prove suicidal in the end for the filipinos as a people and as a nation.

[LytSlpr]

@GAREB:

1] Is the EDSA 1 & 2 still not our best? I know it is a shotgun remedy when we are already pushed to the edge but it's really hard to follow it up with a strategic development plan because a great majority of our leaders are corrupt.

2] If foreign players of utility services will be allowed here, YES, it will make it cheaper by at least 50% & NO, it will nor affect Small & Medium business. That is why the local players are so afraid, because foreign firms' technology are more advanced therefore better service, they are less corrupt & there will be competition. Take for example telecommunications. Believe it or not our telecommunications here is cheap. Look at your NDD service, it's just 3 pesos but then it is still quite steep for the common tao but the point is it is realtively cheap compared to other countries. Even our cellular service is cheap. Ask an economist for a more detailed explanation coz I'm just too tired to expound.

3] I know it is our government's responsibility to give basic services to the people but let us not be too idealistic on the other hand let's be PRACTICAL & REALISTIC. Just look at most of our government offices & I can name a lot, they are renting from private buildings for God's sakes & the government has countless of prime lots being used by squatters & money to construct their own offices. Go figure...

[EZRA]

Gareb: ... If the problem is our Culture.. then the introduction of another culture would be the best remedy, right?

Racism is always there... against blacks, latinos, italians, polish, chinese, Filipinos, etc.... you can't escape racial prejudice.. but the question is, would the Filipinos be treated as 2nd rate citizens in their own homeland? That's why I stated Hawaii as an example. There's a dense Filipino concentration in Hawaii.. my bass player is Hawaiian and he's the one who told me that the whites are treated as minorities there.

About law abiding.. ang naka pait sa ato-a .. mapalit tanan.. gamayg sueldo ang parak... what's the sense of honor while gutom imong pamilya? Ang hustisya gihimog puppet sa mga dagkog tae ... do you think these would exist if the Philippines is under U.S. statehood...? I don't think so... ma usab ang pangutok sa taw if kabalo sila nga dili madali dali ang ga dagan sa balaod.

So karon... if we can't follow our own selves, what's there to do? Unsa may mahimo nato aning butanga? Do you think nga a revamped administration would remedy this?
You've been talking about HOPE.... but the thing is, who's going to take the action? Don't blame foreign influences.. we brought this upon ourselves. Our nation is in the pits ... deep down in the pits. I wouldn't say that being a U.S. State would be the only solution to everything but it certainly can lift the lives of the Filipinos. Unless a miracle happens, I don't see the Philippines prospering in the next century or so. But I see JOLINA as a Senator 15-20 years from now.

[FK]

I am for statehood. It doesn?t undermine my being Filipino and because I have to go away with so much ideology that does not make any sense or give favorable result at all. Hey, what?s patriotism or independence for in an empty stomach?

See, that's exactly the reason why the country is in the state it's in in the first place. Concepts, or you can call them ideologies, like patriotism and nationalism are alien to us. What do they basically mean, anyway? Love of country, right? So those concepts are alien to us, or they're absent in us. That's why we pollute our environment, for example, because we don't care about our surroundings. We don't feel our surroundings as part of ourselves, so we carelessly throw garbage anywhere. That's why we have corruption in government; first, because most politicians love only themselves and their families and don't care about the country. They don't give a hoot that their districts don't have good hospitals or good schools or good roads. All they care about is enriching themselves. And second, because we let these people continue their thievery. We are not outraged at their unexplained wealth and lavish lifestyles (to the point that we actually do something about it, and not only talk about it), because we don't care about the country. We only care about ourselves, our own welfare, and/or that of our immediate family's, and not the country's.

That's why some of us can so easily say, "Let's make the Philippines a state of the US," because we don't care about the country, we don't feel we have anything to lose by surrendering it to another country. Perhaps we have forgotten our own unique culture, history, traditions, or perhaps we've never known them.

It's our lack of patriotism and nationalism that is the problem here. Our lack of love for our country is the main cause of all our problems. We should do something about that. We shouldn't look for far-fetched "solutions" like "statehood". We must look for them in ourselves. Look at Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore. They've prosepered because their people love their country. Patriotism, Nationalism, and the principle of Independence make a lot of sense to them, that's why they're moving forward.

We complain that we can't eat patriotism and independence, or that patriotism and independence don't mean anything to empty stomachs. Well, we will surely have empty stomachs until we've learned patriotism and independence's true significance.

AMEN!!!

[FK]

do we really need to be under another country to change? So kong dili jud d i ta ma under sa America... dili lang sab d i ta mag usab?

<O.T.> another solution nga ako nakita no nga dili maglisud ang taw kay family planning... mahigugma-on ra man gud kaau ta. bisan maglisud gani og pakaon sa kaugalingon maghimo pa og bata pwerteng daghana...

[Visual C#]

My point is we can do it, only if all of us worked together. Let's not rely on the Americans to do things that we can do for ourselves. Pessimism is never a good value to cherish. Let's help each other, let's do things ourselves, and keep the Americans (or anybody else for that matter) away from it.