RELIGION....(part 2)

[Cardinal Bunal]

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So you do everything to topple it. Therefore you are just after our "power" and our "wealth". Its not about the truth.

No one mortal can topple the RCC! Only God can 1... Truth cannot be found by blindly following what the Roman clergy tells us to do in terms of doctrinals and dogmas. 2

1. Rev. 18: 18
2. 1 Thes 5: 21

[mannyamador]

According to the Bible it won't... instead it will apparently convert itself, but in reality it will crush and devour the whole world, hence it became a Catholic Insititution in the form of the church.

That's pretty :mrgreen: wacky consideirng that the Church was the one that put together the Bible and decided what would go into it!

It's more likely that the deception comes from persons like yourself who put on the garb of religiosity and misinterpret the Bible for their own purposes.

You aren't just concerned. You're just lying.

[Cardinal Bunal]

That's prettyÂ* Â* wacky consideirng that the Church was the one that put together the Bible and decided what would go into it!

The Church - YES, because God did use the HANDS OF HIS PEOPLE to compile The Books but... what Church? Who were and are considered part of it and free from bitter root? That is the question.

By around 100 A.D. it was done, the RCC was 4 centuries away from what they claimed! And by 170 A.D. most who were part of the universal Church already did recognize what letters or documents were Written Word. The RCC didn't establish it, they only reaffirmed it.

Of course there were the Gnostics and other people who wrote extra Biblical and heterodoxal themes, but even they must have known which were inspired and canonical by 170 A.D onward.

[mannyamador]

The Church - YES, because God did use the HANDS OF HIS PEOPLE to compile The Books but... what Church? Who were and are considered part of it and free from bitter root? That is the question.

Since when did YOU have the authority to determine God's Church?

There was only one Church that compiled the Bible: the Catholic Church. Since you disagree, show me historical evidence of another church that did so. You CAN'T.

I thought so.

By around 100 A.D. it was done, the RCC was 4 centuries away from what they claimed! And by 170 A.D. most who were part of the universal Church already did recognize what letters or documents were Written Word. The RCC didn't establish it, they only reaffirmed it.

Bad history. There were spurious books being ibncluded in the "scriptures" almost up to the Catholic Church Councils that determined the canon. The Church didn't just reaffirm... it DETERMINED!

Of course there were the Gnostics and other people who wrote extra Biblical and heterodoxal themes, but even they must have known which were inspired and canonical by 170 A.D onward.

Must have? Now that's quite a leap of logic. History says otherwise.

[brownbrawn]

That's prettyÂ* Â* wacky consideirng that the Church was the one that put together the Bible and decided what would go into it!

The Church - YES, because God did use the HANDS OF HIS PEOPLE to compile The Books but... what Church? Who were and are considered part of it and free from bitter root? That is the question.

By around 100 A.D. it was done, the RCC was 4 centuries away from what they claimed! And by 170 A.D. most who were part of the universal Church already did recognize what letters or documents were Written Word. The RCC didn't establish it, they only reaffirmed it.

Of course there were the Gnostics and other people who wrote extra Biblical and heterodoxal themes, but even they must have known which were inspired and canonical by 170 A.D onward.

You sound like a member of the Freemasonry.

Anyway you are a certified enemy of the Church. You insist on the Gnostic gospels which I believe were not divinely inspired. You insist on it because you want to destroy everything we believe in. You want to supplant your own truth because you want to control the world. You dont believe that Christ is God, do you?

Tell me what you are reading. Holy Blood, Holy Grail?, Their Kingdom Come? Templar Revelation? In God's Name?

[Cardinal Bunal]

I didn't affirm the Gnostics! I was just presuming some of them knew they were preaching or practicing heresy...

then again maybe NOT...

[mannyamador]

I didn't affirm the Gnostics! I was just presuming some of them knew they were preaching or practicing heresy...

then again maybe NOT...

Well, YOU certainly don't know the difference!

[Cardinal Bunal]

All right, I'll come to a conclusion or a hypothesis - the Pope or Popes is/are probably far more knowledgeable than those people were back then due to a lot of advances in research and knowledge but he sure doesn't know that he is deceiving and being deceived... how could they have known then? ;-b

Probably they don't and were never aware about what was written word and even if they knew - they didn't know they were practicing error.

Only the lawless one is fully aware of his deception and the truth he has cast to the ground.

[ichor_82283]

Salvation is by grace through faith... It is a grace of God- God showing love to the sinners, and we can have the GRACE through faith-the acknowldegment of HIS grace.

What happens next if you have faith (genuine) in Him? Read John 1:12 ... YOU automatically became HIS child! REad it again... YEp, you will become HIS child.

Question: Will the relationship of FAther and Son be ever detached?
Answer: NO.

Wrong. Have you ever read Matthew 7:21-23? Sirach 16:12-14 together with Romans 2:5-11? Try Ezekiel 18: 26-30 and 33:13-14? Does God change His mind regarding what is just? Be sure that you read Ephesians 5:4-7 also.

Finally, is not the wages of sin death as in Romans 6:23? Is not death the absence of Jesus Christ who is Life?


CONVICTION AND CERTAINTY OF SIN IN THE LIFE OF A PERSON
It is presumed by the Scripture that all human beings have a knowledge of sin that is both innate to their being, and also revealed by the Spirit of God. It is the knowledge that reveals the guilt and confirms the judgment of God against the sinner. Knowledge of the sinful condition of all human beings is the prerequisite to salvation, and that knowledge is provided by God Himself, through the creation and by revelation.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen , being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
The Holy Bible, Romans 1:18-20 (NAS)
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
The Holy Bible, John 16:7-11 (NAS)

Q: So what's the relevance?
A: You are assured of SALVATION. YOU as His child, become attached to HIM forever. READ JOhn 10:30..."No one can snatch you from the FAther's Hand..."

Okay, you have now read the quoted verses above. Search your soul.

Q: Will you lose your salvation if you commit sin?
A: No. You have the sealed relationship...Ephesians 1:13...
You will only suffer consequence...Just as a loving Father cares for His child...

So, you are rejecting Hebrews 10:26-29? Even Saint Paul admitted that he did not stand acquitted in 1 Corinthians 4:4-5. Are you then better suited to judge your salvation than Saint Paul?

REPENTANCE
All sin, regardless of how it was committed or against whom. has as its root rebellion against God and is ultimately a sin committed against God. As a consequence, repentance is required by God and confession to Him of offenses committed is necessary so that the full import and gravity regarding the serious nature of the offenses can be understood. Repentance is not simply saying, "I'm sorry," because words come very cheap. Repentance, in its full meaning, is in relation to turning around, or a reversal of action. Repentance is not only saying that a person is sorry, but carries actions indicating that the person has turned in the opposite direction from the sins committed. repentance.


"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!"
The Holy Bible, Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NAS)
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham."
The Holy Bible, Matthew 3:7-9 (NAS)
Repentance also carries with it a condition of true remorse and regret, not just because of the consequences of the sin, but because it was committed against God. This expression of remorse reaches to the core of a person's being.
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done."
The Holy Bible, 2 Corinthians 7:10-11a (NAS)

The benefits are appropriated through the gift of Faith, that is given from God. It is repentance that brings the person to a position of submission to God and a realization that separation from God is a reality and that reconciliation is not possible through human effort. It is through repentance that a person understands that only by pleading to the grace of God can a standing before God be obtained.

Note:
Undeniably, you CAN commit sin. The difference is you are under the PARDON of a Father not as the JUDGe (CHRIST). Committing sin is not a privilege under this Pardon.

You mean you are pardoned of all your past, present and future sins once you have taken Christ as your own personal savior? The Bible denies that (Romans 3: 25). Easy believism indeed. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have the same Will. What is the Will of God the Father is the Will of the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is one of the reason that they are called the Holy Trinity.

Answer: Precisely. What kind of a God is JEsus Christ if HE can't pardon sin from past, present and future? I believe Romans 3:25 is in support of having FAITH in CHRIST- THAT HIS BLOOD (HIS DEATH) IS THE ATONEMENT FOR SIN! Have you fully understand what it meant? The whole chapter of Romans 3?

ROMANS 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Â*----FREELY BY HIS GRACE!!! GET IT? JUstified in this context means being made righteous by GOD! HIS death as an atonement made you justified; ergo you become justified! we just cricled in the whole context...

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Â*

Rom 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Â*

Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Â*

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Â*

Do you really know what you have quoted? Read the above verse!
Deeds of the law---THe way people justifies themselves (ROM. 3:10, no one is righteous, no not one! yet God made you one through believing in HIM!) NOw where's the easy believism?

The MARK of a TRUE SAVED believer is that he/she does not continue to sin.
1 John 5:18 (Easy believism is not salvation).

Thank you for affirming my conviction. To sin is to commit a sinful act or to omit doing a charitable act. Either way, you will commit sin. If you see a beggar in the street less than fully clothed, do you stop and clothe him? If not, then you have omitted doing a charitable act. You have sinned. By your statement above, it would be very difficult to attain salvation and assurance of salvation would be nearly impossible.

Impossible for those impossible to be saved, people with low grasp of how GOD works!

Read this:
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died NEEDLESSLY� (Galatians 2:20-21).

If righteousness is made through human efforts, CHRIST died in vain.

Even though we live this Christian life "in the flesh" it is nonetheless lived "by faith" in Christ. "Not only are we justified by faith, but we also live by faith. This means this saving faith cannot be reduced to a one–time decision or event in the past; it is a living, dynamic, reality permeating every aspect of the believer's life" (George). It was John Calvin who said, "it is faith alone that justifies, but the faith that justifies is not alone." Jesus Christ is the object of this faith. He is the one who "loved me and gave Himself for me."

For me, SALVATION is not maintained but shown. Once you are SAVED (Pardoned) you don't have to keep on sinning. Having CHRIST acknowledged through FAITH is not a LICENSE to sin.

Indeed, being redeemed is not a license to sin. Instead, it is a commitment to stop sinning. Yet, as you have already stated, you can still sin. You still have to choose between sin and charity. You still have your free will. You still have to 'work out your salvation with fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12) and to fear that, after having preached to others, you yourself should be disqualified (1 Corinthians 9:27).

Will a PARDONED person from eternal damnation wants to commit sin and return to the punishment? NO...

Will you?

Theoretically, no. Realistically, quite possible. Have you never sinned again after you have been 'pardoned'? Please remember that you are saying that a 'pardoned' person from eternal damnation will not want to commit a sin. All sinful acts must be willful. Have you never willfully committed a sin after you have been pardoned? Your answer should be no or else you have your argument will self-destruct.


eratum:

I must say that it is not the sinners act anymore that he/she does not want to sin again and agan! Galatians 2:20...

Fast Facts: (SALVATION 101)

SALVATION is by grace through FAITH (Ephesians 2:8-9). YOU acknowledge that none can ever save you except CHRIST (Romans 3:10) and that HE is the true God that will deliver you from hell.

In I John 1:9...After you acknowledge God, you must confess your SIN to HIm for clearly God abhors SIN. Even a fade dot of sin is not permissible in HEaven.

'Even a fade dot of sin is not permissible in HEaven' --- that is quite a big condition for heaven, wouldn't you think so? How about all those years when no Christian has ever reach China? Are all those souls in Hell just because they had not and could not possibly have faith in Christ whom they do not know and have not heard? Your pre-requisite of salvation is indeed an impossible criterium for these people.

YOU do not know how God works in their lives. It is written as it is written...
Romans 6:23... "the wages of sin is death..." who are we to question? God knows best. It is not me who gave that criterium, as you say.

Afraid?

As John the Baptist preach: REPENT and believe!

And Christ said : 'Amen, Amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.' Then, the explaination followed in the verses of Titus 3:4-7 – "But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior…" By the command of Christ in Matthew 28 19 – "Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…" – Peter also demanded in Acts 2:38-41 – "Peter [said] to them, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.'"

Baptism also saves.
That's true. But may I qualify.
Baptism here is not meant as immersion or sprinkling of water. Baptism here is the RENEWAL of spirit (our spirit) by the SPIRIT of GOD (the Holy Spirit)...

SPIRITUAL BAPTISM is what is meant in here. REad the whole context and don't quote a fragment of it.

Receive JESUS CHRIST in your life and HE will deliver you from eternal death...
ENJOY the FATHER-CHILD relationship....

You'll know that you have HIs grace once you hate sin....

Don't be like a pig...after bathing it'll return to the muds. It is not a sign of a person who receives pardon from his redeemer!

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.


and so be with you.

[ichor_82283]

THE THREE REQUIREMENTS OF FAITH
The faith that God honors, the faith that is from a sincere heart, requires three things: felt need, content, and commitment.


FELT NEED
Faith cannot begin until a person realizes his need for salvation. If he is without Christ, he needs salvation whether he recognizes it or not. But he will not have reason to believe until his need is felt, until it is recognized. When Saul was persecuting the church, he had a great need for salvation, but he certainly felt no need of it. He was thoroughly convinced he was doing god's will. Only when the Lord confronted him dramatically on the Damascus road did his need become known and felt - in Saul's case, very deeply. The need may not, at first, be clearly understood. On the Damascus road, Saul could not have explained his spiritual need in the way that he was able to do some years later when he wrote the book of Romans. He simply knew that something was desperately wrong in his life and that the answer was in God. He knew he needed something from the Lord.

Often a person's felt need is only partial. The first feeling of need may only be for a purpose in life or for someone to love us and care for us. Or it may be a sense of need for forgiveness and removal of guilt, for inner peace. The most important thing is that a person realize that the answer to his need is in God. People came to Jesus for many reasons, some of them rather superficial. But when they came, Jesus met all their needs. They may have felt only a need for physical healing, but He also offered spiritual healing. Felt need does not require theological understanding of the doctrine of salvation, only a sincere heart that knows it needs salvation. On the other hand, a person who does not feel a need for salvation, no matter how good his theology, if far from faith in God. Felt need is essential, but inadequate on its own.

CONTENT
A person does not have to comprehend the full knowledge and understanding of the doctrine of salvation before he can be saved, but he does need the gospel truth (1 Cor. 15:1-5) that he is lost in sin and needs the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. He must know the gospel. The idea of "blind faith" sounds spiritual, but it is not biblical. Even great persons of faith will not know many of the things about God until they see their Lord face to face in heaven. But God does not demand faith without giving reason for faith. The writer of Hebrews, for example, piles up truth upon truth and presents Jesus as the Jews' promised Messiah. He also shows that the New Covenant is far superior to the Old, that the old sacrifices were ineffective, and that only the new sacrifice can bring a person to God-and so on and on.

The following story is told of Channing Pollock, a well-known playwright. Mr. Pollock was collaborating with another author in writing a play. As they were working late one night in Pollock's New York apartment, something in the work they were doing caused the friend to say to Pollock, "Have you ever read the New Testament?" Pollock said he had not, and they continued working until early morning, when they parted, Pollock went to bed, but could not sleep. He was bothered b his friend's question, simple and casual though it seemed. He finally got out of bed and searched the apartment until he found a New Testament. After reading the gospel of Mark through, he got dressed and walked the streets until dawn. Later, telling the story to the friend, he said, "When I returned home, I found myself on my knees, passionately in love with Jesus Christ." Beginning with a felt need, vague as it was, he then looked at the truth and its evidence-and believed.

COMMITMENT
The climax of faith is commitment. Professing Christ, without commitment to Christ, is not saving faith.

My father often told the story of a tightrope walker who liked to walk a wire across Niagara Falls-preferably with someone on his back. Many people on the bank expressed complete confidence in his ability to do it, but he always had a difficult time getting a volunteer to climb up on him.

Many people express complete confidence in Christ but never trust themselves to Him.

As a missionary translator in the New Hebrides, John Paton was frustrated in his work for a long time because the people had no word for faith. One day a man who was working for him came into the house and flopped down into a big chair. The missionary asked him what the word would be for what he had just done. The word the man gave in reply was the one Paton used for faith in his translation of the New Testament. Without hesitation or reservation, the man had totally committed his body to the chair. he had felt his need for rest, he was convinced that the chair provided a place for rest, and he committed himself to the chair for rest. A believer must, in the same way, totally commit his life to the Lord Jesus Christ. Only then is faith, saving faith.
The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, Hebrews, John F. MacArthur, Moody Press, 1983, pp. 264-265