Second Look on Islam

[tribu]

---

Playing expert again. Most of your issues have been answered already. So let me divert for awhile and let me tell you something.


Your points are immature and incorrect, you have traces of inaccuracies and therefore can be qualified as a poser.

Here are my proofs...

If they follow the old testament then they are jews and not christians?
You are confuse. Jews dont have the New testament but the christians do. Most christians do follow the old testament FYI,unless you belong to a cult. For example,nowhere in the new testament that christians are required to give the tenth of their wealth but christians follow this law of tithing. Christians also quote old testament verses,and up till now christians follow the laws of Moses such as: thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife and etc...

the best proof of this, is,even Jesus quotes Old testament law w/c i showed you during my last post.

judge the sacred book and not what the adherents are doing?
So correct,and because you are a poser your information is inaccurate,thats natural for someone who pretends to know something. The bible is one book,the God in the old testament is the same God of the new testament,the God who committed genocide is the same God in the person of Jesus. You cant acquit Jesus unless you delete the old testament out from the christian bible.

So go ahead judge the book by what is written. By the way your abrogation has no effect,ayaw palusot,hehe. Jesus even quotes old testament principle,showing that there is no abrogation done,unless of course theologians love to play God.

crusaders were formed to protect?
LOLZ. again inaccuracies,a sign of a helpless poser.


Muhammad lust for power and wealth?
LOLZ, again, a sign of a poser and now verging to become a troller. I bet YOU HAVE NEVER READ the Quran and the HADITHS. Mao na cge ug google nya dawatun ang gi pangsulti nga mga misrpresentations ang mahitabo, migawas ang pagka ignorante.

FYI, Muhammad during his time sat on no Throne. He dislikes when people greets him and treat him like someone important. when he died, he only had a bed made of straw,a blanket,one horse,and a house made of ordinary materials. Most of his wives were old maids,whose husbands died during the war. He took them because its kinda hard to be a widow t that time and marry them because its not lawful for him to take this women inside his family w/o marrying them. If my memory serves me right he only had 2 young wives. You are so misinformed.


Islam is discredting itself?

LOLZ,again this statement is a desperate act of a poser,who only googles for informations.

FYI, Islam is the fastest religion in the world. In fact the statistic shows that the growth rise after 9/11. and most of its converts are women. So i dont know where you get your information that Islam is discredting itself.


Nagkadugay naka maayo ang kristyano?

well di lang ko mo comment ani kay i know you dont represent christianity. Di man gani ka ganahan ni Jesus matud nimo,you hate middle-eastern religion. So mao ng osahay mag libog ko nimo. Kay at one point gamiton nimo ang chrsitianity para isabong sa Islam nya kung maglisod na, mo dayun ka ug ingun nga dili ka ganahan sa mga middle eastern religion where christianity belongs.


This guy is unbelievable, ka poser nimo sir oi. You are encouraging the people to read the Quran as if you have already read the Quran giving an impression nga expert na ka sa mga exegesis sa Quran,LOLZ. I will bet my life nga wala pa ka ka read sa Quran, kay FYI sir noh, ang Quran is written in ARABIC,kabalo ka mobasa ug arabic sir? kanang mga english nga Quran dili na Quran sir mga translation na sila. Most of them is not accurate because the ARABIC language is totally different sa english language,mao ng mga english translations dont have an accurate translation.

With all the pretensions you showed here and with all the inaccuracies in the information you have given i personally believe that you are a Poser and slowly becoming a troll.

what happened to the woman who was caught commiting adultery? jesus should have stoned her to death because that was mosaic law. LOLZ

tell me if he really follow the mosaic law why did he harvest some food during sabbath. why did he heal during sabbath. it was mosaic law not to do so.

and why was he against divorce when it was clear mosaic law permits it.

LOLZ and you think you answered all the questions. LOLZ

yes, nagkamaayo ang christianismo because it already abrogated the violent jewish law and chose love, tolerance and peace. while islam's sacred book abrogated the first few peaceful verses and encourages terrorism and violence.

i will leave people to judge my posts, because i am not here to win a debate, unlike some people here, i am not obsessed with winning a debate because i believe that there are many intelligent people out there who just need to be informed and then they themselves can do their own verifications of the informations that are presented to them. i am only here to present a fact that i discovered, the ball is now in their hands and they themselves can study whatever i have presented here and see if indeed it has truth. i am not forcing anyone to believe me, all i have to do is to inform people of what i discovered. it is for them to verify it.

by the way, here is a quran in arabic. you can even verify if the arabic is being translated correctly. and besides those who made those translations are well respected arabic scholars.

The Holy Qur'an (Yusuf Ali, tr.) Index

here is also from arabic scholars so i don't think this is mistranslations. compare them and see it still talks about the same violence.

Compendium of Muslim Texts

That's why I don't mention credentials here. Anyone can be anyone in istorya. I can simply say that I'm an engineer with a PHD and an MBA (impressive? so impressive that's it's obviously BS).

And considering sources are dauntingly numerous I only refer to them broadly coz in reality nobody actually bothers to read them.

i will leave people to judge my posts, because i am not here to win a debate, unlike some people here, i am not obsessed with winning a debate because i believe that there are many intelligent people out there who just need to be informed and then they themselves can do their own verifications of the informations that are presented to them. i am only here to present a fact that i discovered, the ball is now in their hands and they themselves can study whatever i have presented here and see if indeed it has truth. i am not forcing anyone to believe me, all i have to do is to inform people of what i discovered. it is for them to verify it.

now, if you don't want to read the quran and the hadith. then, you cant really say you know the religion. that is why i am asking everyone to read the quran and the hadith and verify the informations i have presented. read and educate yourselves.

besides, the muslims should be very glad that i am telling everyone to read their sacred books. christians had been telling people to read their bible and they are glad that i read their book. so im sure the muslims would also be very happy that you people are now reading their sacred books because i am encouraging everyone to read them.

and i don't have to brag about credentials. look at the judge who was a topnotcher yet believes in duwendes and i also have a patient at the psychia ward who was a doctor. M.D.

[Malic]

what happened to the woman who was caught commiting adultery? jesus should have stoned her to death because that was mosaic law. LOLZ

tell me if he really follow the mosaic law why did he harvest some food during sabbath. why did he heal during sabbath. it was mosaic law not to do so.

and why was he against divorce when it was clear mosaic law permits it.

LOLZ and you think you answered all the questions. LOLZ

yes, nagkamaayo ang christianismo because it already abrogated the violent jewish law and chose love, tolerance and peace. while islam's sacred book abrogated the first few peaceful verses and encourages terrorism and violence.

i will leave people to judge my posts, because i am not here to win a debate, unlike some people here, i am not obsessed with winning a debate because i believe that there are many intelligent people out there who just need to be informed and then they themselves can do their own verifications of the informations that are presented to them. i am only here to present a fact that i discovered, the ball is now in their hands and they themselves can study whatever i have presented here and see if indeed it has truth. i am not forcing anyone to believe me, all i have to do is to inform people of what i discovered. it is for them to verify it.

by the way, here is a quran in arabic. you can even verify if the arabic is being translated correctly. and besides those who made those translations are well respected arabic scholars.

The Holy Qur'an (Yusuf Ali, tr.) Index

here is also from arabic scholars so i don't think this is mistranslations. compare them and see it still talks about the same violence.

Compendium of Muslim Texts



i will leave people to judge my posts, because i am not here to win a debate, unlike some people here, i am not obsessed with winning a debate because i believe that there are many intelligent people out there who just need to be informed and then they themselves can do their own verifications of the informations that are presented to them. i am only here to present a fact that i discovered, the ball is now in their hands and they themselves can study whatever i have presented here and see if indeed it has truth. i am not forcing anyone to believe me, all i have to do is to inform people of what i discovered. it is for them to verify it.

now, if you don't want to read the quran and the hadith. then, you cant really say you know the religion. that is why i am asking everyone to read the quran and the hadith and verify the informations i have presented. read and educate yourselves.

besides, the muslims should be very glad that i am telling everyone to read their sacred books. christians had been telling people to read their bible and they are glad that i read their book. so im sure the muslims would also be very happy that you people are now reading their sacred books because i am encouraging everyone to read them.

and i don't have to brag about credentials. look at the judge who was a topnotcher yet believes in duwendes and i also have a patient at the psychia ward who was a doctor. M.D.

First of all i am not debating with you, well, i did challenged you to a live debate but you decline,so i resorted to engaging you to a discussion w/c can hardly be called a debate. Do you see me flooding you with DATA and Verses from the Quran? NOPE. If this was a debate you'll be drown with FACTS that i will bring into play. Do you see me strictly defending Islam? NOPE. because i don treat this exchanges as debate. Ka assuming nimo oi. lols.


Again you are showing here some sign of being poser,if i were you stop doing this(quoting verses) because you are damaging the principles of christianity,you already said it,you hate middle-eastern religion,there is no reason for you to quote christian verses.

The adulterous woman story doesnt show any abrogation. My goodness! here again your ignorance of scripture in display. Jesus said in this particular scenario,"let those who have no sin cast the first stone". Is there any words of abrogation found in there? NO. Jesus was merely suggesting,He was saying that if you think that you are also sinless then pick those stones and throw it at her.

If Jesus wanted to abrogate the Mosaic law then He should have said something like this, "this law is no longer applicable for i have given you a new law" BUT we dont see Jesus doing that. Instead by His words we can see a trace of approval but at the same time he was offering mercy and forgiveness. Examine the words of Jesus " let those who have no sin THROW or CAST the first stone" hehe. Jesus said CAST it or THROW the stones, Jesus here obviously was in favor and never had any intentions of abrogating the Mosaic law. Thats the way to interpret the verses.


About the sabbath? again this is what exposes your ignorance of scripture,your lack of proper hermenuetics. My friend durting Jesus time the Pharisees were adding and stretching the law of Moses,In other words they gave an extreme interpretation of the laws. Like the Sabbath law,never in the law of Moses where it says that you should not work for your food or withold good deeds. The law "keep the sabbath Holy" means that you should devout yourself in the lord's work but it doesnt mean that one should not help someone that needs help, or that you dont work to feed yourself and others who are hungry. So Jesus here was not really violating the Mosaic law but rather he was trying to destroy man made laws that were found being added to the meaning of the Mosaic law. Again that my friend is the way to proper exegesis.


well i think i did answered all your questions,but you see i dont want to honor your question because obviously its not your work,google made it for you. And i dont see any sincerity in you.


Jesus is against Divorce? ignorance of biblical verses is at play again here. I told you you are not doing christianity a good favor. Jesus is God correct? He gave the law in the old testament to Moses permitting divorce,so was Jesus confuse or maybe he got some amnesia that he forgets that he gave the permission for divorce? reconcile this one first and i will give you my own conclusion.



Islam encourages Terrorism and violence? hehe,you just read a few verses from anti-islamic groups and you are now so convinced that islam encourages terrorism and violence,tsk tsk. I think you are not thinking. If you are brave enought to face the truth and admit your mistakes i like you to go back a few pages because i posted articles explaning Islam's position on Terrorism.


Yes go ahead read the Quran and the Hadiths but dont make conclusions on your own seek the help of the Imams and the scholars,because these are the people who received proper knowledge about the Quran. These people have studied the classical Arabic used during the time of the Prophet.


In Islam we appeal to authority,we dont interpret stuff according to our own likes. Like in matters of Science, the scientists will formulate his theory then present it to the proper body of authority then debates and experiments proceed,then at the end of the day the proper authority,well verse in scentific knowledge will give the verdict and whatever the verdict is,becomes the standard of any scientifc reference.

A muslim scholar reads the quran and hadiths and out form his study he formulates his own fiqh and interpretations,present it to the proper body then debates and presentation of evidence will took place then after a long days of intellectual exchanges the proper authority will come up a resolution and that resolution will become a standard of fiqh and belief of anyone who calls him/herself a muslim.

Thats how islam work my friend.

[v2s13]

@tribu: close minded ra au ka bro about Islam. Knhanlan man bsin ug like mga priest sa islam or unsa ba na tawag para mka explain jd about Islam. Pareha ra gud sa Bible if ikaw2x ra mo basa ana sure jd ko di nmo masabtan tanan. Knhanlan jd expert sa mga in ana na butang usa ka mka judge sa religion.

Sa bible dili dai salbahis a2 ginoo ka2 na time na naa flood?? daghan au patay. And ka2 plagues etc nahitabo? Dili dai to death iya punishment? Pero if ang priest mo explain ani dha ka mka sabot unsa ang sak2 na interpretation. If mo basa ka sa revelations naa dha halos mga end of the world stuff pero wa jd kai ma sabtan, samot na ang Psalms hehehe

Internet is not the best teacher bro. Try to find kana pari2x(la ko kbaw unsa tawag ana nila ) sa muslim para ma explainan jd ka ayaw i base imo learnings sa youtube, net and self reading sa quaran. Pareha ra nko wai basa2x bible kay wai gamit di ko kasabot nya kapoy sad ad2 pari para pa explain gud. hehehe
Daghan catholics dri sa pinas pero most of them has wrong a understanding about christianity. Daghan christians pero maglibog ko kay mo tu-o japon ug mga encanto, mag offer2x pa. hehehe

Daghan sad tawn christiano salbahis, like sa politics, they might not kill people personally/directly but they are killing them unconciously. Every peso they steal someone dies of hunger. 5th nata sa pinaka ka gutom na country sa world. Daghan gud tao na so-called christians para mo fit in sa society pero in reality wa na sila Ginoo. Kay kung tanan christians true christians pa jd di unta ta in ani ka corrupt ang pinas.

[tokidoki_v2.0]

mao pre. nya mamasa raba dayon sa lain ang iya sayop.

[bcasabee]

Bro Malic, do you have some kind of a central authority? Like for Catholics, we have the Holy See which very much have the same authority as the what you have describe below.

In Islam we appeal to authority,we dont interpret stuff according to our own likes. Like in matters of Science, the scientists will formulate his theory then present it to the proper body of authority then debates and experiments proceed,then at the end of the day the proper authority,well verse in scentific knowledge will give the verdict and whatever the verdict is,becomes the standard of any scientifc reference.
Thats how islam work my friend.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

To all the guys participating here,thank you for maintaining the peace in this thread. I have much to share.

I believe what one Bishop said...If the nations of this world(U.N) can come together and talk about how to keep the peace inspite of differences in culture,governance,policies and etc. why cant the religions of the world?

i like this idea.

[tribu]

First of all i am not debating with you, well, i did challenged you to a live debate but you decline,so i resorted to engaging you to a discussion w/c can hardly be called a debate. Do you see me flooding you with DATA and Verses from the Quran? NOPE. If this was a debate you'll be drown with FACTS that i will bring into play. Do you see me strictly defending Islam? NOPE. because i don treat this exchanges as debate. Ka assuming nimo oi. lols.


Again you are showing here some sign of being poser,if i were you stop doing this(quoting verses) because you are damaging the principles of christianity,you already said it,you hate middle-eastern religion,there is no reason for you to quote christian verses.

The adulterous woman story doesnt show any abrogation. My goodness! here again your ignorance of scripture in display. Jesus said in this particular scenario,"let those who have no sin cast the first stone". Is there any words of abrogation found in there? NO. Jesus was merely suggesting,He was saying that if you think that you are also sinless then pick those stones and throw it at her.

If Jesus wanted to abrogate the Mosaic law then He should have said something like this, "this law is no longer applicable for i have given you a new law" BUT we dont see Jesus doing that. Instead by His words we can see a trace of approval but at the same time he was offering mercy and forgiveness. Examine the words of Jesus " let those who have no sin THROW or CAST the first stone" hehe. Jesus said CAST it or THROW the stones, Jesus here obviously was in favor and never had any intentions of abrogating the Mosaic law. Thats the way to interpret the verses.


About the sabbath? again this is what exposes your ignorance of scripture,your lack of proper hermenuetics. My friend durting Jesus time the Pharisees were adding and stretching the law of Moses,In other words they gave an extreme interpretation of the laws. Like the Sabbath law,never in the law of Moses where it says that you should not work for your food or withold good deeds. The law "keep the sabbath Holy" means that you should devout yourself in the lord's work but it doesnt mean that one should not help someone that needs help, or that you dont work to feed yourself and others who are hungry. So Jesus here was not really violating the Mosaic law but rather he was trying to destroy man made laws that were found being added to the meaning of the Mosaic law. Again that my friend is the way to proper exegesis.


well i think i did answered all your questions,but you see i dont want to honor your question because obviously its not your work,google made it for you. And i dont see any sincerity in you.


Jesus is against Divorce? ignorance of biblical verses is at play again here. I told you you are not doing christianity a good favor. Jesus is God correct? He gave the law in the old testament to Moses permitting divorce,so was Jesus confuse or maybe he got some amnesia that he forgets that he gave the permission for divorce? reconcile this one first and i will give you my own conclusion.



Islam encourages Terrorism and violence? hehe,you just read a few verses from anti-islamic groups and you are now so convinced that islam encourages terrorism and violence,tsk tsk. I think you are not thinking. If you are brave enought to face the truth and admit your mistakes i like you to go back a few pages because i posted articles explaning Islam's position on Terrorism.


Yes go ahead read the Quran and the Hadiths but dont make conclusions on your own seek the help of the Imams and the scholars,because these are the people who received proper knowledge about the Quran. These people have studied the classical Arabic used during the time of the Prophet.


In Islam we appeal to authority,we dont interpret stuff according to our own likes. Like in matters of Science, the scientists will formulate his theory then present it to the proper body of authority then debates and experiments proceed,then at the end of the day the proper authority,well verse in scentific knowledge will give the verdict and whatever the verdict is,becomes the standard of any scientifc reference.

A muslim scholar reads the quran and hadiths and out form his study he formulates his own fiqh and interpretations,present it to the proper body then debates and presentation of evidence will took place then after a long days of intellectual exchanges the proper authority will come up a resolution and that resolution will become a standard of fiqh and belief of anyone who calls him/herself a muslim.

Thats how islam work my friend.

i posted the quran that is in arabic and they can study it. muslims should be glad that i am encouraging everyone to read the quran and the hadith.

@v2s13: ang ginoo sa bible ginoo nimo pero dili nako ginoo kay kung tinuod pa nang imo ginoo hagbay ra unta sya nigawas aron humanon ang kagubot na dala sa religion. wa ba ka makapangutana man lang sa imo kaugalingon na kung tinuod pa naay ginoo na pareha sa giingon sa inyo bible. ngano hangtud ron wala pa man tay nakitang tao na walay kamot na kalit natubuan ug kamot. gamhanan man kaha nang ginoo ninyo. ug tinuod nang sulti nimo ang diyos na nahimong maayo sa new testament mao mao ra na diyos sa old testament kung tuohan ninyo si jesus. usa gihapon ka violente na diyos apan ato nalang ning consuelo de bobo kay bisag unsaon naghinulsol naman siya sa iyang gibuhat ug iya nang giusab ang iyang binuhatan na makita sa old testament.

ug unsa man ang ingon sa quran bahin sa ila kuno revelation:

dia man gani giingon sa quran:

054.017
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

easy to understand man kaha. aw, kung tubayon nato ang sulti ni malic, namakak diay ang quran kay kinahanglan pa man diay kuno ug musabot para nimo.

ang islam gikan pa lang sa sinugdan pirti nang gubota. sila sila man gani magpatyanay. kung dili sila busy pamatay sa mga kuffar ug dhimmis. sila sila mismo ang magpatyanay. tan-awa nalang nang pagkadivide nilag ayo. sunni vs shiite. sa una ra na panahon nagpinatyanay na ni sila, pareha ra ni sila sa mga catolico ug protestante na naggubot kay kaning inyo gituohan na ginoo hangtud ron wa man magpakita intawn sa iya kaugalingon kay mag-agi pa man daw sya ug mga propeta. pero ang tinuod ana gipangilad ra mo anang mga tao na nag-ingon propeta sila. sa kakusog ra na sa imagination sa mga tao hasta dewende himoon ug adviser.

[v2s13]

Lisud sad nuon kung wla religion kay if tanan tao di mo tu-o ug ginoo murag mo violente man bsin tanan. Wla nai kahadlukan, wlay nay mo tabang kay wla na obligation. Mao bya na nka nindot sa religion kay daghan char2x sa life. Ampo2x dayon kay wa na madaganan lain. hehehe

Gubot jd na bsta religion kay naa man gud dha ang kwarta. Kung wa pai kwarta makuha anang religion asa na tagdun sa mga tao. Ang nka bati lang jd sa christians kay grabe ka daghan hypocrite. Ambot nlng jd. Ang muslims sa kay murag isog ra kau, sobra ra sad.

@malic: Kana abu sayaf and milf bro i consider na sila na muslims? Murag grabe nman kau sila ka gubot. Unsa na sila na muslim? dba daghan mna tribe2x?

@tribu: atheist ka bro or la pa au ka faith in any religion?

[Alel]

Lisud sad nuon kung wla religion kay if tanan tao di mo tu-o ug ginoo murag mo violente man bsin tanan. Wla nai kahadlukan, wlay nay mo tabang kay wla na obligation.

We cant assume that Bro. As what we can observe, in a way sense even dogs possess that sense that we humans label 'morality', although they do not regard it as highly as we humans do. And I dont think dogs worship any god. Hehehe

I think it was Munzter666 that pointed this out, not sure (if its not him but someone else, my apologies. ):

Religion is just a tool. Just like a gun. A gun does not kill people. Its people that kills people.

It surely is a tool that helps introduce the concept of morality to people. But it is not the tool. It is not the only tool.

Religion is somewhat like anesthesia. Its surely helps, but not a necessity for the collective purpose of a surgery. You can still operate a man without any anesthetics and still get the job done. I hope you can recognize the connection.


Alel

[munzter666]

Lisud sad nuon kung wla religion kay if tanan tao di mo tu-o ug ginoo murag mo violente man bsin tanan. Wla nai kahadlukan, wlay nay mo tabang kay wla na obligation. Mao bya na nka nindot sa religion kay daghan char2x sa life. Ampo2x dayon kay wa na madaganan lain. hehehe

thats very misleading, you cant back that up.
easy for you to say...statistics says otherwise. mas daghan pang gubot ang mga religion centered countries compared to others.