hahay...! frankly speaking sa.. kung ipasar ni nga balaod kai ok kaau... galing lang sa church dili ok kai dili naman sila ka pangwarta...! Kasagaran mga pari pangwarta ra na ila.
Yes
No
hahay...! frankly speaking sa.. kung ipasar ni nga balaod kai ok kaau... galing lang sa church dili ok kai dili naman sila ka pangwarta...! Kasagaran mga pari pangwarta ra na ila.
You seem to be having trouble grasping the issue. Showing the EFFECTS of an alleged cause do not necessarily prove that the alleged cause is the real cause. You must show the causal relationship. And you have FAILED to do so.
Overpopulation is a MYTH.
Even the New York Times admitted as much (and they are hardly pro-life) in its millenium edition. It is quite sad that you can't even understand what economists and scientists in other nations have realized decades ago.
Uh, yeah, base national policy on what your fish tell you.I'll just talk to my fishes who are in need of a new tank because they can understand what overpopulation means.
@diatabz
Murder and corruption are also prevalent. Does that mean we should close our eyes to that? You're just taking the easy way out, but unfortunately that way also has other disastrous consequences. You only make the problem worse.Promiscuity is already prevalent, even before we dreamed of this bill.
Do you think guesswork is any better? When you are proposing measures with very grave consequences guesswork is NOT enough. You need evidence and analysis. And the evidence clearly points to the fact that poverty is hardly ever caused or aggravated by population. Poverty is caused and aggravated by other factors, which population control does not address.But its not helping the situation either. I never said that population pressures are the sole cause of poverty. Its one of many factors along with corruption, greed and many more. Please, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that our economy is no longer fit for our growing population. You don't need statistics, graphs and charts to understand.
I also wrote an argument against this line of reasoning in an old blog article:
Does Population Growth Really Exacerbate Poverty?
Does Population Growth Really Exacerbate Poverty? PHNix Network Advocate
As Julian Simon noted, more people can cause some short-term difficulties, but more people also bring more innovation, production, and ultimately the solutions to alleviate these difficulties. That is the bigger picture that the micro-economic model (with which people here are obsessed) does not allow you to see.
And do you know who is one of the MAJOR causes of such unsanitary medical practices? It is the population control programs of groups like USAID! These programs use dirty needles to inject Depo Provera, use unsanitary manual vacuum aspiration (an abortion procedure), practice unsanitary and improper insertion of IUDs, and unsanitary tubal ligations and vasectomies.Oh, and in Africa, unsanitary medical practices, such as the repeated use of dirty needles, have helped spread AIDS. Not just ***, but needle sharing as well. Up to this day it is still a problem that plagues the continent. So don't put all the blame on their programs.
Steven Mosher recently exposed all this in his new book. It still isn't on local bookshelves though, so we'll have to wait to get the complete details. But some others have read it and we can see what they can quote from the book. Ruben Obregon, for example, in "Shocking: HIV, Contraception and Abortion and Africa - a Hidden Connection?" writes:
In this chapter, Mosher details how the United States Agency for International
Development (USAID) decided to integrate HIV/AIDS programs into existing family planning programs in
Africa - with disastrous results.
Mosher attributes the reuse of dirty needles, including those used to inject Depo-Provera, for many of
Africa's HIV infections. He also suggests that Norplant implantation and abortion by manual vacuum
aspirator (MVA) may also put African women at risk.
The problem is that in many areas, needles and MVAs cannot be properly disinfected prior to being
used again. (You read that correctly - needles are reused!) Additionally, local blood supplies are unsafe,
and are often used as a last resort - often resulting in only a delayed death.
Mosher points out that David Gisselquist, Stephen Potterat, and their research team found that "two thirds
of HIV/AIDS in Africa results from injections with infected needles or other medical exposures to infected
blood."
In reviewing 22 separate studies in 2003, Gisselquist and Potterat found that:
- Injection was more associated with HIV than heterosexual ***.
- Most of those infected were in monogamous relationships
- Those who are more well off have higher rates of HIV, which is the opposite of typical STD patterns
- Clinic attendance was associated with HIV
- Infants also had high rates of non-mother to child transmission
They also found that *** related HIV cases only accounted for 25 to 35 percent of infections.
Mosher blames the situation on USAID's AIDS/SRH (sexual and reproductive health) approach.
"The reason why the integrated AIDS/SRH approach hasn't slowed the spread of HIV in
Africa is because most HIV/AIDS cases on that continent are not the result of sexual contact at all. Rather
they are the result of contact with HIV through dirty needles and other substandard, invasive medical
procedures. More to the point, they are the result of the kinds things - Depo-Provera and other injections,
Norplant insertions, IUD implantations, tubal ligations, and Manual Vacuum Aspirators (MVA) abortions -
that are done to women at integrated AIDS/SRH clinics."
Don't blame the population control programs? On the contrary! Such programs are one of the major causes of the spread of AIDS in Africa! Just look at the evidence!
As for Thailand, the evidence is also clear: AIDS infections of epidemic proportions despite the massive promotion of condoms. The fact that it is only now slowing down is not necessarily due to condoms either. The people of Thailand have also come to realize that they have to change their promiscuous behavior, which is exactly what is happening. The condom failed -- MISERABLY -- to slow down AIDS, but behavior change actually works.
There's another word to describe a certain kind of behavior change. It's called ABSTINENCE.
Let me add to this post (00:23, 2008-08-09):
Take note that Uganda primarily promotes abstinence and monogamy as a tool to fught AIDS. The condom part in the ADC program is just a nod to the international funding agencies who insist on including condoms (even if they don't really work).
Note this new article containing statements from the First Lady of Uganda, Janet Museveni:
From: Uganda First Lady Decries Increase in Risky Sexual Behavior while West Threatens to Pull Funding over Ugandan "Homophobia"
According to New Vision, Musevini said that Ugandans are abandoning behavior-based solutions to HIV-AIDS
in favour of methods, imported from the West, that only serve to perpetuate the disease.
"It is not too late to reverse the trend," she said. "We can adopt our own indigenous solutions, which are less
expensive and are 100% sure of preventing the spread of this deadly disease. I find it very baffling how we could
throw away what worked, and embrace ideas from elsewhere. Then we watched as rates of infection soared
again to claim lives."
Musevini's words echoed those of anti-AIDS crusader Sam Ruteikara, who wrote in the Washington Post several
weeks ago that Western methods of combating AIDS, which strive to protect casual *** at all costs, are being
imported into Uganda and are resulting in a rise in risky sexual behaviour and the overall HIV-AIDS rate.
Last edited by mannyamador; 08-09-2008 at 12:12 AM. Reason: additional info
'Family Planning' Groups Spreading AIDS in Africa with Depo Provera, New Study Warns
From 1994-2000, USAID provided 41,967,200 units of Depo Provera into developing world
NEW YORK, September 8, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - With its insistence on the use of injected contraceptives,
health organizations pushing Depo Provera have been spreading AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases
in the developing world. A new study by the National Institutes of Health, University of North Carolina and Johns
Hopkins University in Baltimore have found that the use of injected hormonal contraceptives increases the risk of
STD's. Charles Morrison of Family Health International in Research Triangle Park, N.C., who led the study, said
that it is possible that the drug itself actually increases susceptibility to disease. The study says that the use of
such drugs can increase the risk of STD's as much as three-fold.
The Population Research Institute in their Weekly Briefing mailout, said this is not news to people lobbying
against the widespread use of artificial contraceptives in the developing world. They point to a 1996 study that
found an elevated HIV infection rate among monkeys who were given subdermal progesterone implants. They
warn that the so-called 'family planning' programmes pushed in the third world by organizations such as the
World Health Organization and UNFPA, are in fact engaged in spreading sexually transmitted diseases
including the deadly AIDS virus.
From 1994-2000, USAID provided 41,967,200 units of Depo Provera into the developing world, at a cost of
over US $40 million. Even the Reuters newswire story included a sober note on the implications for foreign
depopulation programmes in Africa. Pro-life lobbyists and countries with strong pro-life ethics have long
complained of the coercive nature of UN-distributed foreign aid, saying that it is invariably linked to the use of
contraceptives and abortion. The new research suggests that the strategy of using contraceptives to reduce the
rate of STD's has backfired. In the nineties, when it was receiving funding from the Clinton administration, the
UNFPA was shipping 20 million doses of Depo Provera a year.
Depo Provera is a major component of foreign-funded family planning programs in Africa. USAID sends more
units of Depo Provera to Africa, to countries such as Mozambique, Tanzania and Nigeria, than to any other part
of the world.
PRI's President, Steven Mosher said, "As the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa rages out of control, we have been
recklessly promoting and distributing drugs which make women even more vulnerable to the deadly virus. We
have been pouring gasoline on a fire." It remains to be seen what response will be made by the population
control agencies at the UN to this new information.
-----
Other Links
Depo Provera May Triple STD Risk (9/04)
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/579/36/
"Women who use the injected contraceptive Depo-Provera have a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases, U.S. researchers [National Institutes of Health, UNC, and Johns Hopkins Univ in Baltimore] reported. This holds true even when behavior and other factors are taken into account."
Last edited by mannyamador; 08-08-2008 at 11:45 PM.
Its like fooling ourselves by believing that because of overpopulation, we became economically undeveloped. I don't even see overpopulation. What I see are corrupt government officials, cry baby citizens who still need spoon feeding (in other words ganahan ra dawat ug limpyo) and the uneven distribution of wealth and opportunities.
Right you are! These are things the population controllers don't want to focus on.
How many mouths do you actually feed? You blame the culture of corruption your same institution helped propagate for our miseries.
Come on give it up you aren't winning any supporters here.
I would like it very much if you could endorse my proposal on how to combat the problem of overpopulation to your superiors. My proposal involves neither contraception nor abstinence; It's called GAY ***.
Please spare me the foam-mouthed rants. Do you think population control will solve corruption?
A high-risk proposal? Here's something from the latter part of the story I quoted earlier (Uganda First Lady Decries Increase in Risky Sexual Behavior while West Threatens to Pull Funding over Ugandan "Homophobia"):I would like it very much if you could endorse my proposal on how to combat the problem of overpopulation to your superiors. My proposal involves neither contraception nor abstinence; It's called GAY ***.
Statistics show that the HIV-AIDS infection rate is by far the highest amongst homosexual men. The most recent
UNAIDS report reveals that in the Kenyan port city of Mombasa, a incredible 43% of men who only have *** with
men were infected with HIV. The numbers were similarly high in Zambia, where 1 in 3 men who only have *** with
men were found to have HIV. A 2006 report from the Public Health Agency of Canada revealed that this trend is
not only isolated to developing nations, with 51% of Canadians infected with HIV found to be homosexual men.
Way to go...
I respect your thoughts, but I think this bill, with some tweaking, will help.
Define short term yeah? Less than a decade or how about ten to twenty years? Go ahead and tell these people "Gee, you know what, things'll get better in a few years or so, but for now, I want you guys to live in a shanty for the meantime and starve ok?".
You know, your detachment may have its use, but one difference between us is that you've never spent the amount of time I have with these "less than fortunate ones". Sure you said you've been with them. But not like I have. I spent two and a half years working in a clinic situated in the downtown area. The ghetto, as most people call it. Most of our patients were from Pasil, Mambaling and Tabo-an. You have no idea how many mothers we had coming in who have more than 5 to 7 children. What they did for a living? Beg, steal, and for the luckier ones, they got to work at the Carbon Market. You're probably going to say, "Well then maybe they should've abstained from having ***.". Thing is, most of these women had husbands who were either drunks or lazy bastards who humped the living daylights out of their wives for kicks. You willing to bet how many families have lives like these all over the Philippines? They need to be informed that there are other ways of preventing pregnancy aside from abstinence.
You don't have to have a degree in economics to understand that if these families continued to have more children, they won't have the capability to provide for all of them. Common sense! When there are more mouths to feed than rice, there is nothing you can do. Even more so when the government can't do jack sh*t.
Oh, as for Julian Simon's idea that ...
The idea that more people will produce ever more brain power and creativity that will always solve any future problems humanity may face won't work in this country. Not when the World Bank estimates that 8.9 million 7-24 year olds are not in school, and that a rising percentage of out-of-school youth have left formal schooling before completing primary education. You willing to bet again how many of these kids are below the poverty line? Do you think they can solve our nation's problems when most of them haven't even finished grade school? Expect that number to increase if this government doesn't take action.more people also bring more innovation, production, and ultimately the solutions to alleviate these difficulties.
You know as much as I do that the Philippines is a mishmash of problems. From education, to corruption and a flailing economy as well as a population that exacerbates our predicament. What I'm trying to say is that we need to work on ALL problems slowly. Your idea that...
...has merit. Did I not say that maybe if our economy were a little better, or maybe if we had a less corrupt government, populations pressures would've never been an issue like it is now? If we're to recover, we need to at least make an effort of controlling the population WHILE working on education, corruption and all the other factors impeding this country's growth.poverty is caused and aggravated by other factors, which population control does not address
If you still think we need to leave our population alone, I dare you to go to Mambaling and spend a week, no, even just a day, with the Badjaos.
You blame USAID, when in fact they've contributed so much to Uganda's success since the 1960's. The same success you're so proud of. USAID cooperates with African health workers who sadly, in the past, have not been adequately educated on sanitary procedures. AIDS wasn't the only problem caused by needle sharing, but Ebola as well, but that's another discussion though. AIDS is a problem in Africa, not because of USAID's help, but because of the lack of funding (from problems such as the lack of medical gloves, masks, heck even sanitary napkins), and the quality of health workers. Africans acknowledge this fact and are learning from their mistakes. When you blame USAID, you make them sound as if they maliciously and deliberately want to spread AIDS. That's gonna tick off some people.
I'm not even gonna question your data from Steven Mosher. I know he's a bit of an extremist. Being kicked out of Standford and China for doing something illegal numerous times has tainted his reputation. But I don't mind though and I still respect the information you presented.
Uhhhhh... No. During the 80's Thailand started promoting it's famed red light districts. During this time as well, AIDS burst into the scene. Hence, the upsurge of AIDS cases in Thailand. Since the first case was detected in 1984, more than one million Thais have been infected and more than 400,000 have died. Like I said, if it were not for Mechai Viravaidya's campaign, as well as the cooperation of Thai citizens, millions more would've died. In my book, when you have a 90 percent decline in infections, you don't call that "failing -- MISERABLY --". Read this article so you can understand better.
***, AIDS and Thailand - TIME
Ahhh, you assume they don't work. Uganda had it's success in the 90's. That's when C, was still a part of the ABCD program. Like I said, only 4 years ago did the government promote abstinence-only programs. Check out what's happening now.
Uganda: 'Population Pressure Affecting Aids Fight'value
New Vision (Kampala)
29 April 2008
Anne Mugisa
Kampala
UGANDA'S rapid population growth is making it hard for the country to effectively fight the spread of HIV/AIDS, according to the AIDS commission.
The director general, Dr. Kihumuro Apuuli, yesterday explained that mother-to-child transmission accounted for 22% of new infections.
He said 25% of the babies born to HIV-infected mothers contracted the virus.
"If we do not prevent new infections, we will be chasing a mirage."
Uganda population is estimated at about 30 million and the women on average bear seven children.
Kihumuro was briefing journalists on the forthcoming HIV/AIDS global implementers meeting slated for June 3-7, in Kampala.
He was flanked by the deputy Chief of Mission at the US embassy, Andrew Chritton and the UNICEF country representative, Keith Mckenzie.
"An estimated 1.1 million people are infected with HIV but 90% of them do not know that they are infected," Kihumuro said.
He lamented the recklessness among people expecting that a drug to treat AIDS would soon be found in addition to the anti-retroviral drugs (ARVs).
The AIDS commission, he noted, had drawn a five-year strategic plan emphasising prevention as opposed to treatment, adding that more that 30,000 new infections were occurring in the country annually.
Kihumuro said HIV-related deaths had risen to 100,000 last year from 72,000 a few years ago when the national sero-prevalence survey was conducted and this showed a 30% increase.
There was need to increase the number of people on anti-retroviral therapy, he observed.
"There are 120,000 people on anti-retroviral drugs out of an estimated 240,000 who need it. We intend make the drugs available to 300,000 people. "
OK. Then let's agree to disagree..
Cut the BS. Time doesn't stand still and the additional people aren't coming in at just one time, y'know. That means the means to alleviate problems are being produced NOW and the short-run problems are already being addressed. What is NOT being addressed are the real causes of poverty: bad governance, war, corruption, indiscriminate debt servicing, etc.Define short term yeah? Less than a decade or how about ten to twenty years? Go ahead and tell these people "Gee, you know what, things'll get better in a few years or so, but for now, I want you guys to live in a shanty for the meantime and starve ok?".
You think I made up these arguments myself? They were discovered by people who have spent more time with the poor than you ever will. Steven Mosher spent around a decade in China and witnessed more than you ever will. Fr. Paul Marx has spent more time with the suffering poor than you have. Same with Colin Mason, etc. You may have some experience, but the arguments you draw from it just can't stand up in the face of their sound reasoning.I spent two and a half years working in a clinic situated in the downtown area.
In this context, that's just another word for NONSENSE. You are still making the same mistake over and over: You cite certain bad EFFECTS (hunger, poverty, etc.) but are unable to show that your alleged cause is the real cause. No matter how many effects you cite, you don't provide proof that your alleged cause is the real one. So the argument fails completely. The families are poor because of bad governance, corruption, and injustice. Eliminate those factors and these families will be able to rise out of poverty. Think about that last sentence for a bit. it makes a lot more sense.You don't have to have a degree in economics to understand that if these families continued to have more children, they won't have the capability to provide for all of them. Common sense!
It has worked in other countries with less resources. And you won't increase the brainpower by population control either. You have to address the REAL CAUSE of lack of education.The idea that more people will produce ever more brain power and creativity that will always solve any future problems humanity may face won't work in this country.
In 2007, the Philippines paid out over 613 BILLION PESOS in debt servicing, of which 170 billion went to foreign debtors. Have you ever tried thinking about how much you can improve the educational system by simply repealing the law that mandates foreign debt servicing? You will eliminate the classroom shortage in two years. You will eliminate all funding shortages in the educational system in less than ten years. Population control will do NOTHING like that.
Population control addresses NOTHING. Overpopulation is NOT one of the problems that has to be addressed. Overpopulation is merely an excuse used by those who have a vested interest in keeping those problems from being addressed. And they feed good, ordinary people like you and me this propaganda. I say you should question it and realize that your good intentions are being used by those who are far less conscientious than you.
That's a good start.But I don't mind though and I still respect the information you presented.
Again, let me show you the figures for debt servicing. If you eliminate even just the foreign debt servicing, you will probably solve all our public education budget shortages in less than a decade.
Code:NATIONAL GOVERNMENT DEBT SERVICE CY 1999-2007 NATIONAL GOVERNMENT DEBT SERVICE CY 1999-2007 (In Million Pesos) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Particulars 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007p/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TOTAL DEBT SERVICE 205,396 227,843 274,439 357,959 469,990 601,672 678,951 854,370 613,152 Interest Payments 106,290 140,894 174,834 185,861 226,408 260,901 299,807 310,104 266,883 Domestic 74,980 93,575 112,592 119,985 147,565 169,997 190,352 197,259 157,270 Foreign 31,310 47,319 62,242 65,876 78,843 90,904 109,455 112,845 109,613 Principal Payments 99,106 86,949 99,605 172,098 243,582 340,771 379,144 544,266 346,269 Domestic 61,552 45,429 54,038 80,944 147,322 222,405 253,492 380,939 284,017 Foreign 37,554 41,520 45,567 91,154 96,260 118,366 125,652 163,327 62,252
Again, I have to point out that you are making a wrong assumption. The proof is in the pudding. Condoms failed and Thailand had a million infections and 400,000 deaths (your figures). Condoms were TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE. Now OTHER means are being employed as well, but you are giving all the credit to condoms alone. That's a logical error. I would say that it is the change in attitude and behavior that has brought about the drop in infections.In my book, when you have a 90 percent decline in infections, you don't call that "failing -- MISERABLY --".
This can also be seen in Uganda. When abstinence was the primary strategy, infections dropped. But now that aid agencies are pushing condoms and birth control, infections are rising. It is VERY CLEAR that condom campaigns do not help. They make matters worse since they are antithetical to abstinence, and consequently (in the case of Uganda) lessen the dominant reliance on abstinence. More infections is the result.
Take note that Uganda's ABC program "heavily emphasizes abstinence and fidelity as a sure means to AIDS-prevention, and promotes condoms only as a distant last resort. Under the ABC program Uganda successfully reduced its HIV-AIDS rate from 21% to 6%." (same article I quoted earlier)
Sadly, the condom-made disaster is repeating itself in Kenya too.
Kenya First Lady: Condom "is causing the spread of AIDS in this country."
By Peter Smith
NAIROBI, May 23, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The First Lady of Kenya, Lucy Kibaki, spoke to Kenyan schoolgirls last week to warn them that sexual abstinence before marriage, not condoms, was essential to preserving their lives and futures. In speeches Thursday, and Saturday, Mrs. Kibaki spoke to high school girls about preserving their dignity and future, and urged them not to be duped into using the condom, which she linked to the spread of the AIDS epidemic that has sent millions of Kenyans and other Africans to an early grave.
"Fellow citizens, this gadget called the condom … is causing the spread of AIDS in this country", Mrs. Kibaki said Saturday in a speech she delivered at St. Francis Girls' Secondary School in Dol Dol in the north of Kenya. (from the Kenyan television NTV) Just days before in Nairobi, Kenya's capital, Mrs. Kibaki had taken her message to the State House Girls High School for an awards ceremony, saying, "I am not telling you to use condoms. I am not in favour of condoms." Mrs. Kibaki blamed the rapid spread of Aids on a campaign that has pressured youth to use condoms instead of practicing abstinence before marriage (according to the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation). "I caution girls to be careful about their sexual behavior as this can lead to teenage pregnancy or HIV/AIDS infection."
Mrs. Lucy Kibaki, who chairs the Organisation of the 40 African First Ladies, has joined with Ugandan First Lady Janet Musevi in calling for abstinence as the only way to stop the AIDS pandemic in Africa. Mrs. Musevi has for years been increasingly vocal about encouraging youth to practice abstinence before marriage as the way to prevent HIV transmission. The AIDS prevention program in Uganda, begun by her husband has cut pre-marital and extra-marital sexual activity down by stressing abstinence and fidelity to one's spouse. Likewise the HIV transmission rate fell drastically from 18% to 5-7%, making it clear that abstinence has been the best tool of the most successful country in the fight against the disease.
Mrs. Kibaki's speeches have caused "shock" in AIDS activists, and generated "controversy", since she has dared to take her message that condoms spread AIDS to the youth, especially to the girls. As many African leaders have learned, anything that challenges the hallowed values of the Western sexual revolution is "controversial". Mrs. Kibaki's speeches have touched a nerve in AIDS activists, who continue to promote condom use, even though the 2003 UN report on condoms showed that they failed 10% of the time to prevent disease transmission, meaning that contraction of the disease means "when", rather than "if". For First Lady, Lucy Kibaki, "never" is a sure bet with abstinence.
See related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
Uganda's First Lady Warns Teens against Condom Use
Try telling those two brave African ladies in Uganda and Kenya that condoms work. They know better than that.
Last edited by mannyamador; 08-09-2008 at 05:59 AM. Reason: typos, formatting, additions
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