Gays and Lesbians in Churches

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

---

being a gay is not a sin..... but doing those "gay stuffs" like relationship with the same ***, wearing women's clothings, etc...... are the bad things.......

but im not a gay huh.......

Actually bai .... COMMONSENSE lang na . You wont become GAY when you dont do those things that makes you gay like like *** with the same gender , crossderessing , sexchange etc .


When you say you are GAY but you dont practice it , then you are not GAY . It will only take you one encounter to become GAY ... dont tell me CURIOUS lang ka mao gi sulayan niom bwahahahahaha !!!!!


SO therefore , being GAY is SIN because you engage all those immoral acts . There are lot os Catholic gay priest and they know they have sinned yet it is for God to judge them and not us yet to prevent that from occuring again , then I dont want them to be my leader and preacher . I am not the majority , I just speak for myself and no one else so I think that is why they still exist till today .

[potterboy]

@potterboy:

pls stick to the topic, this thread is monitored.

i think this forum gives a bad image to the lesbian community. i think we should not make lesbians talk in this kind of conversation. this is because we are giving them bad imppression to thier part. i believe that lesbians should always be lesbians because as the rule of God stated that there are only two persons living in these world. Lesbians are lesbians...they have thier own world to tackle with...mora gud na cla ug alien sa kalibutan gud....hehehehehehe!!!! peace out!

obviously, this thread does not damage anything.

[potterboy]

updated list:

PRO

luvmebabhe!
tarsus
kremlin
wiwiwab
clarkhent
chitgoks
Nonon

CON

brod SPRINGFIELD_XD_40
giver_bert
luthienne
mannyamador
FK
dacs
dudoyjoie
Von!-x
P-Chan
roselyn
robearthFX
Empress_Of_Drac
jerx d great(?)

[dudoyjoie]

You cannot serve 2 masters at the same time..... Let us just respect the sexual preferences of gays and lesbians but let us also respect the teachings of the church. If a gay person wants to be a priest then he should stop being a gay and change himself to become a priest....

[Empress_Of_Drac]

@Empress_Of_Drac:
If sticking to the truth is being close-minded, then I would rather have a church like that.

...am a roman catholic mahself...what i meant when i mentioned very close-minded...is the way our church instill in our minds what are the ryt things and what are the wrong ones...the church way of teaching us....like for example...about gays and lesbians...(the very main topic of this thread...that they are bein' stereotyped...that male dominion in the church...(just can't get over it...)..what's wrong of bein' a gay?..a lesbian?...they are characteristics...they are not new types of genders...what do we really mean when we talk about the word morality...is bein true to oneself an immoral thingy?...gays and lesbians...may dont have the ryt to hold positions in the church becoz it wud contradict to what they believe as morality?.....i've read books about it...it's about society standards..etc..i argued about it wd mah val ed instructor...do morality varies from one place to another?... a question...what morality really is?...just give me a clear, vivid, and very short definition.....

ot: what i really mean is...out of topic nako? and... are u dax panganiban? hehehe..SOCK d Lipo..toink...

[FK]

what's wrong with being gay, lesbian?

it's against the natural law. naa bay unggoy nga bayot or tomboy?
ambot kong mag-ana ng mga bayot, asa nila ipasok, kong asa na nila ipasok, parte ba kaha na sa reproductive system.

[bUrbY_dUll]

i believe that God created Man and Woman...so i think they should stick to their sexuality considering that they are in church..

[dacs]

that they are bein' stereotyped...that male dominion in the church...(just can't get over it...)..what's wrong of bein' a gay?..a lesbian?...

The Church did not do the stereo-typing. Media make it appear that she does. Yet, media could not even present the Church's true position correctly and honestly. You gotta read the Church magisterial documents to be enlightened on this matter. I have posted last May 24 two links that - I hope - would help you understand the stand of the Church and how she view the homosexual/lesbian person. It would be good for all of us to hear her side of the argument - and not 'stereo-type' her position.

Church heirarchy is not about dominion; it is about service. Remember that one title of the Pope is 'Servants of the Servants of God' - Servus Servorum Dei. The late Pope John Paul II issued an apostolic letter on reserving priestly ordination to men alone. The whole content of this letter I have provided below:

ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
Pope John Paul II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apostolic Letter On Reserving Priestly Ordination To Men Alone

1. Priestly Ordination, which hands on the office entrusted by Christ to his Apostles of teaching, sanctifying, and governing the faithful, has in the Catholic Church from the beginning always been reserved to men alone. This tradition has also been faithfully maintained by the Oriental Churches.

When the question of the ordination of women arose in the Anglican Communion, Pope Paul VI, out of fidelity to his office of safeguarding the Apostolic Tradition, and also with a view to removing a new obstacle placed in the way of Christian unity, reminded Anglicans of the position of the Catholic Church: "She holds that it is not admissible to ordain women to the priesthood, for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God's plan for his Church."[1]

But since the question had also become the subject of debate among theologians and in certain Catholic circles, Paul VI directed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to set forth and expound the teaching of the Church on this matter. This was done through the Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, which the Supreme Pontiff approved and ordered to be published.[2]

2. The Declaration recalls and explains the fundamental reasons for this teaching, reasons expounded by Paul VI, and concludes that the Church "does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination."[3] To these fundamental reasons the document adds other theological reasons which illustrate the appropriateness of the divine provision, and it also shows clearly that Christ's way of acting did not proceed from sociological or cultural motives peculiar to his time. As Paul VI later explained: "The real reason is that, in giving the Church her fundamental constitution, her theological anthropology—thereafter always followed by the Church's Tradition—Christ established things in this way."[4]

In the Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem>, I myself wrote in this regard: "In calling only men as his Apostles, Christ acted in a completely free and sovereign manner. In doing so, he exercised the same freedom with which, in all his behaviour, he emphasized the dignity and the vocation of women, without conforming to the prevailing customs and to the traditions sanctioned by the legislation of the time."[5]

In fact, the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan: Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. <Mk> 3:13-14; <Jn> 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (<Acts> 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. <Lk> 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,[6] the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. <Rev> 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. <Mt> 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; <Mk> 3:13- 16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the same when they chose fellow workers[7] who would succeed them in their ministry.[8] Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of the Church, would carry on the Apostles' mission of representing Christ the Lord and Redeemer.[9]

3. Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe.

The presence and the role of women in the life and mission of the Church, although not linked to the ministerial priesthood, remain absolutely necessary and irreplaceable. As the Declaration <Inter Insigniores> points out, "the Church desires that Christian women should become fully aware of the greatness of their mission; today their role is of capital importance both for the renewal and humanization of society and for the rediscovery by believers of the true face of the Church".[10]

The New Testament and the whole history of the Church give ample evidence of the presence in the Church of women, true disciples, witnesses to Christ in the family and in society, as well as to total consecration to the service of God and of the Gospel. "By defending the dignity of women and their vocation, the Church has shown honour and gratitude for those women who—faithful to the Gospel—have shared in every age in the apostolic mission of the whole People of God. They are the holy martyrs, virgins, and the mothers of families, who bravely bore witness to their faith and passed on the Church's faith and tradition by bringing up their children in the spirit of the Gospel".[11]

Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason, the Declaration <Inter Insigniores> recalls: "the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (cf. <1 Cor> 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints".[12]

4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. <Lk> 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable Brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my Apostolic Blessing.

From the Vatican, on 22 May, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

NOTES

1. Paul VI, <Response to the Letter of His Grace the Most Reverend Dr. F. D. Coggan, Archbishop of Canterbury, concerning the Ordination of Women to the Priesthood> (30 November 1975): <AAS> 68 (1976), 599.

2. Cf. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores> on the Question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (15 October 1976): <AAS> 69 (1977), 98-116.

3. <Ibid.>, 100.

4. Paul VI, <Address on the Role of Women in the Plan of Salvation (30 January 1977): <Insegnamenti>, XV (1977), 111. Cf. also John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation <Christifideles Laici> (30 December 198, 31: <AAS> 81 (1989), 393-521; <Catechism of the Catholic Church>, No. 1577.

5. Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem> (15 August 198, 26; <AAS> 80 (198, 1715.

6. Cf. Dogmatic Constitution <Lumen Gentium>, 28; Decree <Presbyterorum Ordinis>, 2b.

7 Cf. <1 Tim> 3:1-13; <2 Tim> 1:6; <Tit> 1:5-9.

8 Cf. <Catechism of the Catholic Church>, No. 1577.

9 Cf. Dogmatic Constitution on the Church <Lumen Gentium>, 20, 21.

10 Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, 6: <AAS> 69 (1977), 115-116.

11 Apostolic Letter <Mulieris Dignitatem>, 27: <AAS> 80 (198, 1719.

12 Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration <Inter Insigniores>, 6: <AAS> 69 (1977), 115.

The portion I have highlighted above means that this 'issue' is now a close matter within the Catholic Church. The late pope made the pronouncement ex cathedra.

they are characteristics...they are not new types of genders...what do we really mean when we talk about the word morality...is bein true to oneself an immoral thingy?

You would be surprised how representatives of homosexuals and lesbians lobby for recognition as a gender type. Yet, history tells us the different understanding between *** and gender - which these groups are trying to change to fit their agenda.

If I want to kill someone and I want to be true to myself, would it be okay? If I want to have *** with my daughter and I want to be true to myself, should I seduce her? If I don't want to be a father to my child anymore and I don't want to kill the child myself, could I just throw the child on the trash bin? Indeed, being true to oneself can lead to immoral acts.

...gays and lesbians...may dont have the ryt to hold positions in the church becoz it wud contradict to what they believe as morality?.....i've read books about it...it's about society standards..etc..i argued about it wd mah val ed instructor...do morality varies from one place to another?... a question...what morality really is?...just give me a clear, vivid, and very short definition.....

You got a lot of reading to do, girl. Read about divine law, natural law and moral law. It's deep and boring reading for someone who has just a passing interest. But if you are truly interested, the Internet is a treasure chest (with traps, mind you). I could help - if you want me to.

[Von!-x]

The Catholic Church has its own history of immoral leaders and that include gay priests. Protestants, likewise, do have its own gay ministers. Baptists and Evangelicals, murag naa sad.

But they treat each situation differently. The Catholic Church silently remove the priest. Protestant do the same, but nowadays, gays are tolerated and even consecrated. Evangelicals/Baptists and other conservatives, remove the pastor from the pulpit, require public confession, apology and repentance. Unrepentant ones are removed from the congregation, and in the denomination.

[dacs]

The Catholic Church has its own history of immoral leaders and that include gay priests. Protestants, likewise, do have its own gay ministers. Baptists and Evangelicals, murag naa sad.

But they treat each situation differently. The Catholic Church silently remove the priest. Protestant do the same, but nowadays, gays are tolerated and even consecrated. Evangelicals/Baptists and other conservatives, remove the pastor from the pulpit, require public confession, apology and repentance. Unrepentant ones are removed from the congregation, and in the denomination.

That is both her strength and weakness, depending on which way you may see it. A laicized or defrocked priest could still find mercy from the Catholic Church. He is not humiliated publicly; yet, he is advised to confess his sins and do penance for whatever wrongdoing he has done. He also must answer to the civil authority if ever a crime has been committed.

But, most important of all, the Catholic Church suffers with the offending priest. He, after all, is part of the Body of Christ. If one part suffers, the whole body suffers with it - including Christ who is the head of the Catholic Church. The Church prays for and together with the repentant priest.