Hello Deism

[NapoleonBlownapart]

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One thing, the bible is so focused on humanity and earth as if the earth is center of the universe. We'll it's not.

No it's not and the bible is not focused on humanity but on God. It just happens that God's greatest act has something to do with man.

What if lives in other star systems are proven to be right? Are creatures in those planets included in your so called grace? your so called salvation? What if there exist another intelligent beings in the universe? Will the bible apply to them too when earth is the only focus of the bible?

What if there's not? You're ditching the testimony of Jesus and his many witnesses for that "possibility" that no one knows is true? Imbes na problemahon nato ang salvation sa beings sa ubang planeta, if there is even one, mas maayo siguro atoang problemahon atong salvation kay klaro man ang mensahe sa bible about ana.

Because God allowed it. When did we start sinning? When was the first rebellion? Why are we even blamed for something we didn't do.

Man clearly chooses to disobey so I cannot understand why you would say that man is blamed for something he didn't do.

He didn't make it clear. Why can't he just show himself up and rule the world. Why did he allow a system humanity build to destroy each other? Haven't you ask that.

Again, I don't understand why you want God to have it your way when you already admit His ways are better. Also, He made it clear. He sent His Son and His Son sent many witnesses. If we use your standard in the court of law no one would be convicted for the judge himself must witness the crime to be able to pronounce the man guilty. That does not make sense.
What system?

By the moral standards of humanity. By doing good to others. It's true that even if you live as a good person your entire life. Doing good deeds, feeding the needy and etc. but you don't believe the bible or youre not a christian you're still going to hell. Am I not right? What if you're born a muslim and you believe the authority of the quran. You even want to die for it. You live your life the best person you can be. You didn't hurt people, you helped them, feed them. You are so firm in your belief as muslim. Now during the end of days, it was proven that christianity is the real truth, that means you're going to hell because you're a muslim. Now does that sound fair to you?

What is good? what is bad? Outside of God, morality, good and bad, is relative to culture. So we must measure it according to how God measures "good", so it is not us who say this person is "good", it is God. Now, God says no one is good. Everyone sinned and missed God's standard of good. The punishment for failing to hit the standard is death. Is it not right and just that God, the just and righteous judge of the universe, would give man what he deserves, that is death? No one is going to hell for not being a Christian. They're going to hell for sinning. We have conscience so we know it's wrong or not. Man just ignore it a lot because he loves his sin.

So you mean christians are closer to being righteous than those muslims, those atheist, Hindus, Jews, the agnostics, the deist?

the difference between Christianity is this: on one hand, you have other religions that says righteousness can be attained by ones work, Christianity on the other hand says, righteousness is by faith.

[CarpeNoctem]

There were things in the past that science could not explain but later on were published in scientific journals. The point is what science considers factual now may come irrelevant in the coming years. We can not absolutely rely on its material evidence.

[CarpeNoctem]

cge daw. paghatag daw ug example na science facts BEFORE na dili na relevant karon

You seem to be a smart guy, why don't you look it up? I'm a busy person, no time for lengthy discussions.

[Ivan James]

No it's not and the bible is not focused on humanity but on God. It just happens that God's greatest act has something to do with man.

Yeah, it focuses on the earth bro. Mainly earth and human and it's coming end and the damnation of man. I think it's only for the earth. What's so special about the earth and humanity? Does that mean God gives favor? Does that mean god chooses this people and let the others burn?

What if there's not? You're ditching the testimony of Jesus and his many witnesses for that "possibility" that no one knows is true?

No bro, It's not ditching it's plainly projecting possibilities that have higher probabilities to occur. Come to think of this, our sun is a yellow dwarf and there are a lot of yellow dwarfs in the universe. If we are here in a blue planet revolving around a star like our sun. What do you think of the others star out there? A great probability that there revolve another blue planet with intelligent being in it. The universe is so fine tuned to support carbon based life and earth might not be alone.

Imbes na problemahon nato ang salvation sa beings sa ubang planeta, if there is even one, mas maayo siguro atoang problemahon atong salvation kay klaro man ang mensahe sa bible about ana.

Man clearly chooses to disobey so I cannot understand why you would say that man is blamed for something he didn't do.

Bro, you seem to imply that the bible is absolute and the ultimate truth. In which in my case is not. If i take the bible as the ultimate truth it's like believing something wholly without reservations and without any grounds for changes. It claims to be the only truth, that it's the only truth and will be the truth. Meaning it can't be change and will never be change. For you it's ok to follow without question but for me I don't live like that. For you the bible and its claims have grounds cause you believe it but for someone who thinks it's not absolute, it loses it's grounds and authority.

Again, I don't understand why you want God to have it your way when you already admit His ways are better. Also, He made it clear. He sent His Son and His Son sent many witnesses. If we use your standard in the court of law no one would be convicted for the judge himself must witness the crime to be able to pronounce the man guilty. That does not make sense.
What system?

Simply because we don't share the same god. The god I believe doesn't care about condemning people, he doesn't care about separating a believer and the nonbeliever. He does not care about imposing guidelines in order to have salvation. You're God has one name and can never be the universal God for all people.

What is good? what is bad? Outside of God, morality, good and bad, is relative to culture. So we must measure it according to how God measures "good", so it is not us who say this person is "good", it is God. Now, God says no one is good. Everyone sinned and missed God's standard of good. The punishment for failing to hit the standard is death. Is it not right and just that God, the just and righteous judge of the universe, would give man what he deserves, that is death? No one is going to hell for not being a Christian. They're going to hell for sinning. We have conscience so we know it's wrong or not. Man just ignore it a lot because he loves his sin.

the difference between Christianity is this: on one hand, you have other religions that says righteousness can be attained by ones work, Christianity on the other hand says, righteousness is by faith.

Yeah, Ok man, you're complicating things. In short base on the bible, we are all sinners and will always be sinners and we cannot change that. But only christ can make us righteous by having FAITH IN HIM. Meaning it's the only way to be righteous in the eyes of the god of the bible, in short you have to be a christian to save yourself from the consequence of sin. So you are going to hell if you're not a christian. God is a perfectionist I wonder why he didn't make his creation perfect.

[THE KID]

pwede raman guro i edit/revise napud ang Biblia...para mo haom sa atong panahon...gi bawal ba ang pag edit/revise sa Biblia?pwede raman guro na istoryahan.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Yeah, it focuses on the earth bro. Mainly earth and human and it's coming end and the damnation of man. I think it's only for the earth. What's so special about the earth and humanity? Does that mean God gives favor? Does that mean god chooses this people and let the others burn?

No bro, It's not ditching it's plainly projecting possibilities that have higher probabilities to occur. Come to think of this, our sun is a yellow dwarf and there are a lot of yellow dwarfs in the universe. If we are here in a blue planet revolving around a star like our sun. What do you think of the others star out there? A great probability that there revolve another blue planet with intelligent being in it. The universe is so fine tuned to support carbon based life and earth might not be alone.

This has assumptions. 1.) that there are "others" and 2.) that these "others" fell and need saving like us. What are the basis of these assumptions? If the word of God has not mentioned it, do we really need to concern ourselves with it? I would think not coz at the end of the day each will be judged rightly. What if there are no "others" and what if they don't need saving? Instead of dwelling on the what ifs why don't we focus on what the bible said instead. It really amazes me that it seems you are more willing to believe in this "others" speculation rather than the testimony of the only Son of God and his witnesses. Dude, this is a Romans 1 issue.

Bro, you seem to imply that the bible is absolute and the ultimate truth. In which in my case is not. If i take the bible as the ultimate truth it's like believing something wholly without reservations and without any grounds for changes. It claims to be the only truth, that it's the only truth and will be the truth. Meaning it can't be change and will never be change. For you it's ok to follow without question but for me I don't live like that. For you the bible and its claims have grounds cause you believe it but for someone who thinks it's not absolute, it loses it's grounds and authority.

I'm not just implying I'm saying that it is based on the testimony of the Son of God and his witnesses. What are basis for denying it?

Simply because we don't share the same god. The god I believe doesn't care about condemning people, he doesn't care about separating a believer and the nonbeliever. He does not care about imposing guidelines in order to have salvation. You're God has one name and can never be the universal God for all people.

I believe in God based on the testimony of the Son of God and the testimony of men and women who were with him. What are your basis that this god of yours exist and not just a product of your imagination?

Yeah, Ok man, you're complicating things. In short base on the bible, we are all sinners and will always be sinners and we cannot change that. But only christ can make us righteous by having FAITH IN HIM. Meaning it's the only way to be righteous in the eyes of the god of the bible, in short you have to be a christian to save yourself from the consequence of sin. So you are going to hell if you're not a christian. God is a perfectionist I wonder why he didn't make his creation perfect.

We can't for it is impossible for man but it's possible for God. That is why you can read verses that Christians are new creation, washed, brought out of darkness into his marvelous light, etc. Yes it's the only way for Christ said I am THE way, THE truth and THE life. No, a person is not going to hell for not being a Christian. He is going to hell because of his sin. Let me illustrate through a story. Two people owe a king a million pieces of gold which they agreed to pay after a specific period of time. After such period both were summoned and asked to pay for what they owe the king but both of them can't pay their debt. Now, the king wants them to pay him now and that there will be no extension or he will throw them to jail. The king's son offered to pay it for them and one accepted the offer but the other refused. The other guy who accepted the offer is now free. He is free because he accepted the offer. The other guy who refused was thrown in jail, not because he refused the offer but because he owe the king a debt which he can't pay. Refusing the help offered is not the offense, unable to pay the debt at the agreed time is.

- - - Updated - - -

pwede raman guro i edit/revise napud ang Biblia...para mo haom sa atong panahon...gi bawal ba ang pag edit/revise sa Biblia?pwede raman guro na istoryahan.

What do you mean edit/revise? You mean ipahaom ang wordings na gigamit sa atong panahon karon? or edit as in drop things and add new things?

[Ivan James]

This has assumptions. 1.) that there are "others" and 2.) that these "others" fell and need saving like us. What are the basis of these assumptions? If the word of God has not mentioned it, do we really need to concern ourselves with it? I would think not coz at the end of the day each will be judged rightly. What if there are no "others" and what if they don't need saving? Instead of dwelling on the what ifs why don't we focus on what the bible said instead. It really amazes me that it seems you are more willing to believe in this "others" speculation rather than the testimony of the only Son of God and his witnesses. Dude, this is a Romans 1 issue.

Bro I believe these others than majority of the bible. You see why would I encase myself in a doctrine that we don't know if it really happened 4000 years ago. The bible said it would destroy everything in the ends of time. So these others will also be destroyed. Do you think that's fair? God should save them too. What do you think? Probability of extra terrestrial beings is high. Also, i think the bible must not be taken literally. You see the story of the garden of eden has also been recorded in ancient Sumerian cuneiform, Y HWY and Satan is also depicted there but it was stated differently. and it's more detailed than genesis. I think genesis is edited. or cut from these texts. I am not trying to disprove the bible here maybe we can be a lot more open minded that there are other text out there who tells the same title of the story but the different body. And you can never always blame satan for twisting the story.

I'm not just implying I'm saying that it is based on the testimony of the Son of God and his witnesses. What are basis for denying it?

I am not denying the bible but I just don't want to make it the ultimate truth. It is not the only truth.

I believe in God based on the testimony of the Son of God and the testimony of men and women who were with him. What are your basis that this god of yours exist and not just a product of your imagination?

As I've said lets not make the bible as the ultimate truth because it is not. You can know god without organized religion bro.

We can't for it is impossible for man but it's possible for God. That is why you can read verses that Christians are new creation, washed, brought out of darkness into his marvelous light, etc. Yes it's the only way for Christ said I am THE way, THE truth and THE life. No, a person is not going to hell for not being a Christian. He is going to hell because of his sin. Let me illustrate through a story. Two people owe a king a million pieces of gold which they agreed to pay after a specific period of time. After such period both were summoned and asked to pay for what they owe the king but both of them can't pay their debt. Now, the king wants them to pay him now and that there will be no extension or he will throw them to jail. The king's son offered to pay it for them and one accepted the offer but the other refused. The other guy who accepted the offer is now free. He is free because he accepted the offer. The other guy who refused was thrown in jail, not because he refused the offer but because he owe the king a debt which he can't pay. Refusing the help offered is not the offense, unable to pay the debt at the agreed time is.

Bro, you talked about grace. Maybe, we are all already been saved. The problem with following a doctrine is that you have to make efforts. Efforts in order to have salvation. Organized religion takes freedom away rather than liberating people to be who they are it imprisons them into stereotypes, prescribe lifestyle. That instead of encouraging them to embrace their humanity religion denies them that. This is the very reason I don't wanna comply. Who would follow a fundamentalist God who's not even there. By grace, we are already been saved and that our prime purpose really in this world is knowing God and knowing this being can be by any means. Faith in a universal God. That no matter what your belief is you can be save. Salvation has already been served though grace maybe all can claim that by knowing God. You can bear the same fruits of faith. And god is not a jealous God who can be called by any name as long as you experience oneness with this being. There's no point saying christianity is not a religion because it falls in that category.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Bro I believe these others than majority of the bible. You see why would I encase myself in a doctrine that we don't know if it really happened 4000 years ago. The bible said it would destroy everything in the ends of time. So these others will also be destroyed. Do you think that's fair? God should save them too. What do you think? Probability of extra terrestrial beings is high. Also, i think the bible must not be taken literally. You see the story of the garden of eden has also been recorded in ancient Sumerian cuneiform, Y HWY and Satan is also depicted there but it was stated differently. and it's more detailed than genesis. I think genesis is edited. or cut from these texts. I am not trying to disprove the bible here maybe we can be a lot more open minded that there are other text out there who tells the same title of the story but the different body. And you can never always blame satan for twisting the story.

Again, the objection has no basis unless it's proven that "others" exist AND they need saving.

I am not denying the bible but I just don't want to make it the ultimate truth. It is not the only truth.

As I've said lets not make the bible as the ultimate truth because it is not.

This is a contradiction. By saying it's not the only truth you are in essence denying the bible. You've got to be consistent bro.

You can know god without organized religion bro.

You can't without His revelation.

Bro, you talked about grace. Maybe, we are all already been saved.

Saved from what?

The problem with following a doctrine is that you have to make efforts.

This does not make sense. Doctrine is simply teaching, every theist believes and follows certain teachings, whether they're passed down from others or they discovered/made it themselves. It just happen that you follow your own teaching, your own doctrine.

Efforts in order to have salvation. Organized religion takes freedom away rather than liberating people to be who they are it imprisons them into stereotypes, prescribe lifestyle. That instead of encouraging them to embrace their humanity religion denies them that. This is the very reason I don't wanna comply. Who would follow a fundamentalist God who's not even there.

See, the problem is that you don't want God as He is so you're making a god out of your own image, a god to your own liking. That's basically what idolatry is.

By grace, we are already been saved and that our prime purpose really in this world is knowing God and knowing this being can be by any means. Faith in a universal God. That no matter what your belief is you can be save. Salvation has already been served though grace maybe all can claim that by knowing God. You can bear the same fruits of faith. And god is not a jealous God who can be called by any name as long as you experience oneness with this being. There's no point saying christianity is not a religion because it falls in that category.

What is grace? we are saved from what? I don't remember claiming Christianity is not a religion. It is a ridiculous claim. What's your basis in all these things that you say?

[brownie]

Ako post since page 1 wa gyud tagda sa mga mods! lol na lang ta ani.

Dara oh, the Big Mac God among us.

[noy]

pwede raman guro i edit/revise napud ang Biblia...para mo haom sa atong panahon...gi bawal ba ang pag edit/revise sa Biblia?pwede raman guro na istoryahan.

di na ma edit brad pero ang pagsabut nalang pwede ra sabutan para maka jam sa bagong panahon..hehehe