Abolition of Fraternities and Sororities.

[brownprose]

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Frats/Sors need not be abolished let alone a just means to mete out/satisfy the justice rightfully deserved for those have been bereaved or victimized by the monstrousity of their rites. Neither outlawing these frats/sors will resolve the problem of hazing in general. Hazing exists or is not confined to frats/sors alone. Military, sports teams and some religious groups practice some form of hazing - violent or otherwise.

Also, this issue is not solely of accountability/command responsibility alone -- it is resistance to change as well. Yes, frat-related deaths (due to hazing) are generally not only results of poor leadership and supervision but largely the refusal of their leaders to break their " preserved traditions" which I believe could have averted many hazing-related deaths if they were abandoned or at least adjusted to a more humane, rationale and positive means.

It is only by such honest and serious REALIZATION of our frat/sor leaders that traditions (as hazing) no longer serve their functional purpose to this day and age.

And as I have emphasized earlier in the thread, many of society's long-held traditions were abandoned because many of them have resulted to widespread genocide in most countries like slavery, ethnic purity and forced religion (which were once part of many societies' long-kept traditions before).

When will we ever learn? "The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind...the answer is blowin' in the wind." so goes the song.

[thadzonline]

@brownprose, not many, especially those who are frat/soro members will see your point...I even wonder if they believe you nga fratman ka...but your point is profound, kay kung obsolete na or irrelevant to present times ang traidtions, then it has outgrown its use, kaya tama na at palitan na ang hazing sa initiation ng mga frats and sororities

[brownprose]

@brownprose, not many, especially those who are frat/soro members will see your point...I even wonder if they believe you nga fratman ka...but your point is profound, kay kung obsolete na or irrelevant to present times ang traidtions, then it has outgrown its use, kaya tama na at palitan na ang hazing sa initiation ng mga frats and sororities

Yes you're right - they don't have to necessarily believe me that I am a member of two frats --specially for a fratman "kuno" like me who says things seemingly different/against the existing norms. You know what Thads, I probably am among those who want to break the silence against hazing. I would bet my life if there's a single neophyte who likes (unless he/she is psychologically ill) to go through such violent rudiment just to get in. But he never will have that chance and the choice is not for him to decide - the cardinal principles to which we are founded must be upheld and "the traditions that make of us as a fraternity" deprive such choices for those who wished to choose the lighter side of the whole process.

The resistance to modify existing practices [of the initiation] would be "unfair" (for the rest of us who were initiated) and an "insult" to the very traditions we hold dear for years as most us would relentlessly argue. The thought alone of changing those long-kept rules would be tantamount to "mortal sin" to the service or suffer the discipline of the xxx-ans should you doubt the conduct/ethics of such rites.

Like me, there are those who just choose to suffer in silence lest we suffer a great deal if we choose to resist out in the open. But I am banking on time that one day all these will come to their fruitful end - now that legislation is on our side and the growing condemnation of modern society.

Another fact to the initiation/hazing is that you can never find them in our manual. This is common (I guess) in most fraternities -- you will only read a general description of the rites novice/pledgee's normally undergo but the manner to which it is done remains closely kept as the traditions. Why is this so? If you read our manuals -- it says things about honesty and such other esteemed virtues - but we are not honest enough to say in public that we hurt our pledgee's; that a day in the life of a pledgee must be that of a slave and that we violate their rights for some time during the rites. I ask you Thadz and the rest of the readers if this is not hypocrisy?

Again I don't force anyone to believe me that I am a fratman. And I would even like them to believe that way so they don't need to force my identity. Please also indulge me if I had to speak not in the language of a fratman as I would be best understood by those who are not my kind.

All I wish to happen for all the fraternities is to explore the possibility of change - all that matters to the service of our fraternities isn't only the initiation which is so ABOUT US...fraternities are supposed to exist beyond US we exist in the service of OTHERS -- it's there -- open your eyes, look at your manuals, sing your toast songs, dwell into your insignia -- they are right before you.

[thadzonline]

sometimes, emotion and blind obedience must have taken over man's capacity to think and do good, to reason and to value life. Brotherhood requires not for one to be hurt by his brothers, not for one risking his life in the brutal and murderous hands of high fraternity officials, but true brotherhood, true service makes the fraternity experience worthwhile

[JX]

question lng, naa n ba nmatay sa hazing sa sororities?
or is it just among fraternities?

[Velvett]

Like me, there are those who just choose to suffer in silence lest we suffer a great deal if we choose to resist out in the open. But I am banking on time that one day all these will come to their fruitful end - now that legislation is on our side and the growing condemnation of modern society.

hence, i am not intimidated being told that i don't know much as I am no frat/sorority member. I need not belong to one to be considered a civil member of society. COndeming HAZING DEATHs is my moral responsibility.

All I wish to happen for all the fraternities is to explore the possibility of change - all that matters to the service of our fraternities isn't only the initiation which is so ABOUT US...fraternities are supposed to exist beyond US we exist in the service of OTHERS -- it's there -- open your eyes, look at your manuals, sing your toast songs, dwell into your insignia -- they are right before you.

FAR from the current mentality of blaming the dead hazing victim pa. tsk tsk tsk.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@ VELVETT ...

And there is NOTHING wrong being told that TO KNOW ONE , YOU MUST BE ONE bcause its a FACT . There is also nothing wrong for a CAMPAIGN of AGAINST the HAZING VIOLENCE these FRATMEN commit .

@ BROWNPROSE ...

Ang ako lang ... at least say it right . Mapa FRATMAN ka or dili as claimed by you , say it right . Your ideals are your ideals , nobody can grab that away from you . But at least , if you speak in behalf of us FRATMEN , say it right , so far bai you havent said anything right that is FRAT RELATED . Unless noh imong gi sudlan is not a FRAT but claiming to be a FRAT which is the worst part .

Dont excuse yoursel for speaking so the people of not your kind or OUR kind can understand . Sayop na ka daan , even a grader can understand a FRATMANS lingo , nothing so special and code of secrecy there , ako lang is SAY IT RIGHT .... that is the very first step at least ME , the FRATMEN of iSTORYA.net and the rest of the fratmen in Cebu if not the Philippines will at least believe in your IDEALS .

[Minuano27]

@springfield - i'm just giving my inputs; issues like these oftentimes have a legal aspect that people may not easily recognize...

@velvett - what i posted is not as much about accountability as it is in doing the right thing. under the law, there's no such thing as guilt by association; even the anti-hazing law requires, at the very least, "actual knowledge" of the hazing before anyone can be held liable as an accomplice.

my point is, doing the right thing applies to any other situation and not only frats. for example, you're not a frat member but you have information about the death of someone, and you know that your close friends, who are frat members, are involved. what should you do? not get involved and keep quiet? or do you step up and do the right thing and tell the authorities what you know?

the gravity of the situation in my example may not happen everyday, but i'm sure that most, if not everyone, has encountered a similar moral dilemma in some milder form. as the saying goes, most take the easy way out because doing the right thing is difficult.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@ MINUANO27 ...

I am just trying to appreciate how you lay down your cards because you can easily make us UNDERSTAND how the LAW is defined , applied , and work here in the PHILIPPINES bisan unsa pa na ka complicated and technical sorrounded by loopholes .

[Minuano27]

@spring - thank you for your kind comments. i guess my having taught in law school for several years is carrying over into the forum...

as i posted in another thread, the law is indeed complicated. it may look like it's black-and-white, but it rarely is. that's because the law cannot provide rules for each and every situation that happens in everyday life. what it gives instead are general principles/rules and the exceptions and the exceptions to the exceptions. the gray areas come in when you sort out the FACTS of situation to find out if the law in question applies (and to what extent), and therein lies the complication.