What really is DINNER?

[LytSlpr]

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From Wikipedia:

Dinner is the main meal of the day, usually eaten around the evening, consisting normally of a combination of cooked animal or vegetarian proteins (meat, fish or soy), vegetables, and starch products like rice, noodles, or potatoes.

The word "dinner" comes from the French word dîner, the "chief repast of the day", ultimately from the Latin disiunare, which means to break fast (as in the English word "breakfast"). A dinner can also be a more sophisticated meal, such as a banquet.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the word "dinner" referred to breakfast in Middle English. It derives from late Latin disiunare (to break fast) which has also provided both the French déjeuner (breakfast or lunch, depending on region) and dîner (supper or lunch, depending on region). The Spanish word desayuno, or "breakfast," also comes from this Latin root.

In well-off families in England during the mid-17th century, dinner was served at any time between 11 a.m. and noon and was a rich, heavy, alcoholic repast that lasted for anything up to 3 or 4 hours. After the repast proper, the men would stay at the table to smoke, chat, and drink, while the women would retire to a boudoir to talk, sew, and brew tea.

Then, during the 18th century, dinner was served at a gradually later and later hour until by the early 1800s, the normal time of this meal in upper-class households was between 7 and 8.30 p.m., an extra repast called luncheon having been created to fill the midday gap.

So you see it can be a lengthy and a bit special full lunch or supper. So let's stop calling our ordinary, regular suppers, "dinner" simply because it is wrong and honestly a bit annoying to listen to specially from an average Filipino family (unless you belong to the illustrados) to use the word "dinner" everyday when they really mean supper.

[Ms.Beau]

So you see it can be a lengthy and a bit special full lunch or supper. So let's stop calling our ordinary, regular suppers, "dinner" simply because it is wrong and honestly a bit annoying to listen to specially from an average Filipino family (unless you belong to the illustrados) to use the word "dinner" everyday when they really mean supper.

oh c'mon LytSlpr that's too strict. dictionary definition:

din·ner
1. The chief meal of the day, eaten in the evening or at midday.
2. A banquet or formal meal in honor of a person or event.
3. The food prepared for either of these meals.
4. A full-course meal served at a fixed price; table d'hôte.

what i know is that lexicographers don't just list a word's meanings randomly; they are listed according to widespread use and acceptance. defintion number 1 isn't as strict as you would want it to be. it says that dinner is just that--one's chief meal of the day.

on the historical background:

Word History: Eating foods such as pizza and ice cream for breakfast may be justified etymologically. In Middle English dinner meant "breakfast," as did the Old French word disner, or diner, which was the source of our word. The Old French word came from the Vulgar Latin word *disiūnāre, meaning "to break one's fast; that is, to eat one's first meal," a notion also contained in our word breakfast. The Vulgar Latin word was derived from an earlier word, *disiēiūnāre, the Latin elements of which are dis-, denoting reversal, and iēiūnium, "fast." Middle English diner not only meant "breakfast" but, echoing usage of the Old French word diner, more commonly meant "the first big meal of the day, usually eaten between 9 A.M. and noon." Customs change, however, and over the years we have let the chief meal become the last meal of the day, by which time we have broken our fast more than once.

point is, we cannot refer to the 17th or 19th century and apply strictly the meaning of the words we have today. meanings change. language evolves.

by the way, i had puso and larsian bbq the other night. it wasn't ordinary for me coz it was my first time there and i was with someone special. dugay sad mi nahuman ug kaon. and it was my main meal of the day. was that "supper" or "dinner"?

[Gwynhuever]

ms.beau...the larsian thingy was definitely dinner he he he

[LytSlpr]

oh c'mon LytSlpr that's too strict. dictionary definition:

okay, i'll give you that but answer this, is it appropriate to call our daily regular suppers dinner? a simple yes or no will do.

BTW, it is not about being strict or whatever it is what is appropriate. don't you think? because almost everybody seems to be so casual in using the word dinner just like confusing love to "hook ups" it's just one of those things, you know...

by the way, i had puso and larsian bbq the other night. it wasn't ordinary for me coz it was my first time there and i was with someone special. dugay sad mi nahuman ug kaon. and it was my main meal of the day. was that "supper" or "dinner"?

you tell me...

[Namnori]

I guess to answer this we would also have to take a look at the meaning of the word "supper" also.

*From Merrian Webster (online dictionary)

supper
1 a : the evening meal especially when dinner is taken at midday b : a social affair featuring a supper; especially : an evening social especially for raising funds <a church supper>
2 : the food served as a supper <eat your supper>
3 : a light meal served late in the evening

So I would gather to say that it would depend on when your main meal of the day (main meal of the day = dinner) is. It can be simple to some but to others it may be their main meal. Are the well off the only ones privileged to use the word dinner for their main meal of the day? I think not. I don't think that it's wrong nor do I believe that it should it be annoying to anyone (unless you are from the 17th or 18th century). Taken from thread's first post: Dinner is the main meal of the day, usually eaten around the evening, consisting normally of a combination of cooked animal or vegetarian proteins (meat, fish or soy), vegetables, and starch products like rice, noodles, or potatoes. So a simple meal with the ingredients of mung beans, malunggay leaves, and rice would be enough to fullfill the definition of dinner. If that is your main meal of the day, then it is dinner!


I once had a discussion about this same matter with a friend/co-worker who used to say "I'm going to dinner" when it was his midday meal break (we were working a normal day shift). I was raised in a city environment and he was not. His family owned and operated a large piggery farm (with thousands of pigs/piglets on hand at any given time) in a small town in Iowa, USA. When they were not in school (on summer vacation, holidays, and on weekends) they worked on the family farm. They woke up very early in the morning, worked hard all morning, and then were called to "dinner" by mom at about 11 am. It WAS their main meal of the day and would last over an hour with all the family and the workers present. At the end of the work day (about 5 pm), they had a much smaller meal and they called it "supper". It was a short because the evenings were the time when the kids would do their homework then play, or maybe they would all visit town and/or friends. But they would always go to bed very early because they woke up so early in the morning.
After he moved from Iowa (I first met him about 2 years after he left his hometown), he was still used to calling the midday meal dinner, and I was not used to that, we called it lunch. So it seemed out of habit that he called the midday meal dinner. Actually though, once he left his hometown, his main meal of the day was during the evening. So really, he should have called the midday meal lunch.
There are people that still use the word dinner for their midday meal. However, these are not always the upper class of people, they are also just ordinary working class people.
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OT: People call things differently and don't always exactly use the proper terms. I guess it doesn't make them right or wrong, it is what we have been taught, are accustomed to, and/or what is accepted where we happen to be at the time. Take for instance the many terms for carbonated soft drinks (dictionary term is: soda pop) just in the USA. Depending on what region of the America that you grew up in, you may call it one of a few things, and it seems to be regionalized. In the Northeast , MO, CA, and AZ refer to it as soda. In the South they call it coke (that term applies to all brands and flavors, be it 7up, Mr Pibb, Big Red, Coca Cola, Pepsi, or any kind). So it was very confusing to me when I offered a friend from TX something to drink. He asked me for a coke, so I told him I didn't have any. I told him I had some orange juice and he said that was fine. When I came out with some sprites for myself and a couple of other friends, he asked me why I had told him that I didn't have any cokes.... Huh? It took some getting used to. In the midwest and northwest, they refer to it as pop. It was just very funny to hear the different terms for something that I was used to hearing being referred to by only one name for first 20 years of my life.
But there is a food with more names regionally than any other that I can think of. This type of food is only known as a "wedge" to me, but wikipedia titles the the subject matter as "submarine sandwich". Click on the following link to learn the "regional names and variations" for this popular lunch food: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submari...and_variations

ThanX

[Ms.Beau]

very good discussion. keep it going folks :mrgreen:

[Gwynhuever]

dinner or supper...well personally i do not care too much about the difference...you see i would like to use the correct terms...to be understood and to avoid confusion...not for any other reason....so if in the Philippines it is common knowledge or generally accepted to use one term or the other then ok lang...as i said i like to learn/know the correct terms para masabtan ( like namnori's example of coke) ...pero if it is just to appear more "cultured" or "refined" or just to be a cut above the rest...then it is now snobbery and i'd rather use the "wrong" term than be with the snobbish elite he he he...well anyway i belong to the masa who eat supper and call it dinner anyway ...so no worries there

[LytSlpr]

i see.. personally, i still use supper for "supper" and dinner when it is really in fact "dinner". there is nothing WRONG of using either word because of what a certain individual is accustomed to however it doesn't necessarily mean it is APPROPRIATE. keywords being WRONG and APPROPRIATE.

to be colloquial about it, it just like saying mo adto ta ug kaon or kumbira which are more or less similar but nor necessarily the same.

[Ms.Beau]

let's say "kumbira" has evolved and now means "kaon", then it's appropriate to use the term even if it's just plain kaon at the siomayan or ngoyiongan. again, my point is, if a word has evolved and lexicographers have determined its widespread use and acceptance, we don't need to be so strict now citing etymology and stuff.

well anyway, funny thing now is that I'd pause and say,"i wonder what i'll be having tonight when i get home...is it dinner or supper?" kung daghan pagkaon sa dining table kay dinner na siya, kung leftovers sa gani sa dirty kitchen table kay supper na siya...hehe

another thing, husbands should now be careful. if they always say "honey what's for dinner tonight?" they should expect their monthly food budget to double