Kinsa jud imo gituohan kung diin jud tah gikan, ang Bible or Science?

[Xian120]

---

naa man daw nas 10 commandment na d thou shall not covet thy neighbors .....................

actually wala mana siya sa 10 commandments ang kanang love thy neighbor as yourself, but kong imong i summarize ang 10 commandments bro 2 rman jud na.. first is love thy God then the second is love thy neighbor.. so that's why nkaingon si Papa Jesus nga kanang duha ang pinaka importante which kong imong sabton murag summary siya sa napulo, so nahug ra gihapon nga katong tanang commandments (10) importante to sila tanan..

but i dont see nganong nkaingon ka nga nisupak ko ana.

[psychologic]

actually wala mana siya sa 10 commandments ang kanang love thy neighbor as yourself, but kong imong i summarize ang 10 commandments bro 2 rman jud na.. first is love thy God then the second is love thy neighbor.. so that's why nkaingon si Papa Jesus nga kanang duha ang pinaka importante which kong imong sabton murag summary siya sa napulo, so nahug ra gihapon nga katong tanang commandments (10) importante to sila tanan..

but i dont see nganong nkaingon ka nga nisupak ko ana.

ug managbit d i ka sa imong silingan bro, d d i na sala? alangan man pod ug managbit kag way love dba?

[nausicaa]

di ma insert ang video kamo na lang tan-aw sa external link https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

So true sir slab.
May God bless you

OT

For much of the way, the Lord's footprints go along steadily, consistently, rarely ...

The Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and believe a lie instead. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.

The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God: “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

People claim to reject God’s existence because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once they admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from Him (Romans 3:23, 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable to Him for our actions. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. That is why many of those who deny the existence of God cling strongly to the theory of naturalistic evolution—it gives them an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

[SioDenz]

you are making it sound as if ako ang wala nkasabot sa imong gi istorya., reviewha kuno ang imong gi post bay Siodenz,. you judged me like you know me, you always do.. perhaps maybe next time you ought to be mindful of what you say..

I did not Judge You, i based my comment sa observation sa imung post. Nganu mag post man kag Idea about HELL nga maoy epxression sa Love sa DIOS if nakahibalo man diay ka unsay Meaning sa tinuod nga Gugma. Nya pina sensitive dayun ka nga gi Judge ka sa Imung love sa inyu painmalay nga wa may nag sulti nga wa muy gugma sa inyu. ang gisulti is if unsa ang love sa imung mama nimu mao nay love sa Dios.

do me the favor of not berating on my character and making claims nga ing-ani ko or ing-ana, spare me your ad hominems brother, have at least the decency to dispute my point, prove me wrong instead..

Mao bitaw nay POINT, cge kag Claim ATHEIST ka nya imung i Justify imung pagka ATHIEST tungod sa imung nakita na binuhatan ug teachings sa mga nagsunod sa Religion. Theres No God Because Religion teach KIDS that they will Go to Hell, because religion teach HELL as Punishment...Mao na imung Point - which is NO POINT at all if atu i consider imung Belief nga ATHIESM.

Maklaru man gud natu unsa ka LIG-ON ang pagtuo sa isa ka TAWO labi nag if atung i DISECT ilang mga Ginagmay nga Post ilang ginagmay nga idea. Anha masakpan Kung Istorya ra taman ang ilang pagtuo kunuhay Pero ang tinuoray diay GALIBOG pa or worst Wa kaila if unsa Jud ilang gituhuan.

[Xian120]

I did not Judge You, i based my comment sa observation sa imung post. Nganu mag post man kag Idea about HELL nga maoy epxression sa Love sa DIOS if nakahibalo man diay ka unsay Meaning sa tinuod nga Gugma. Nya pina sensitive dayun ka nga gi Judge ka sa Imung love sa inyu painmalay nga wa may nag sulti nga wa muy gugma sa inyu. ang gisulti is if unsa ang love sa imung mama nimu mao nay love sa Dios.

Mao bitaw nay POINT, cge kag Claim ATHEIST ka nya imung i Justify imung pagka ATHIEST tungod sa imung nakita na binuhatan ug teachings sa mga nagsunod sa Religion. Theres No God Because Religion teach KIDS that they will Go to Hell, because religion teach HELL as Punishment...Mao na imung Point - which is NO POINT at all if atu i consider imung Belief nga ATHIESM.

Maklaru man gud natu unsa ka LIG-ON ang pagtuo sa isa ka TAWO labi nag if atung i DISECT ilang mga Ginagmay nga Post ilang ginagmay nga idea. Anha masakpan Kung Istorya ra taman ang ilang pagtuo kunuhay Pero ang tinuoray diay GALIBOG pa or worst Wa kaila if unsa Jud ilang gituhuan.

yes coz you expressed that options on belief has consequences.. perhaps that wouldve been the point nga imong gi dispute, instead you tell me nga wala ko kabaw unsay gugma.. you ought to have lectured me about God's love and all those neat stuff not directly say to me nga wala ko kabaw unsay gugma, nya telling me nga ing-ani ko.. if you consider yourself a faithful believer and a follower of God, spare me your judgements and dont be condescending, i dont need it.. if naa koy masulti nga bati against your belief grabe daun kayo ka mka react as if gi personal tika, at least have the courtesy of disputing my claim not my character.. it's as if you are putting me in a bad light so as to discredit my point..

The issue here is not about ATHEISM, the issue that im trying to raise is kong unsay laing option nga itudlo sa mga bata,. just because ing-ani ang among pagtuo that dont mean nga walay bili ang among gipang istorya diri. kong ganahan ka makig istoyra, istorya about nganong OK ra itudlo ang impyerno sa mga bata, ayaw cge istorya about sa akong gituohan,. ad hominems is a desperation mode tactic.. at least say something that's a bit more humane,.

[noy]

sometimes magtuo ka nga sakto imong gibuhat but if imohang tan-awon ug maayo dili diay.. scare tactic manang anaon ta sa atong ginikanan nga naay momo and it will emulate all throughout our lives, dili na hinuon ta morisgo kay mahadlokon kaayo ta nga naay bati nga mahitabo.. dili man cguro na maayo nga hadlukon nimo ang tawo esp ang bata para lang moduol nimo or motuo sa imong gusto nga ipatuo niya, kaluoy sad sa bata, kong mao na we are being selfish kay atong gi push ang idea sa iyang utok kay kabaw baya ta nga ang bata dali ra patuohon, it dont have to be that way..

no matter kong unsa ka maayo motudlo sa usa ka tawo, as long as i open up niya ang idea about hell and burning in hell forever mahadlok jud na ang bata, maihap rman sad ang kanang maayo motudlo ug bata, kasagaran dili kaayo talented bahin ana, bati pata motudlo ato pjud hadlukon ang bata, mosamot na hinuon.. pwede rman nto matudloan ang bata about kindness without opening up the heaven and hell topic.. im dont wanna sound condescending im just saying there are better options..

yes i see your point and i agree with choosing the better options.
the idea of Hell from a Christian's perspective is not to scare Christians in defying God..but should be a result of separation from God out of freewill..
ang sayop lang sa mga nagtudlo is gihimo nga panghadlok para mas mapadali ang pagpatuo sa Ginoo
(which i believe nga dili ni intentional...sayop lang i think...though i think we can both agree nga it was out of a good intention, like sa atong mama sa una nga naay momo diha)..

however the point that i am trying to convey is that the "scare tactic" is NOT a formal teaching style of the church.
the church tells people about God ,Christ, heaven and Hell...how the Faithful preach them..
walay control ang Church.(i myself am hoping for a better,approriate and accurate way of teaching)
That's all.

and yes there are other means of teaching...
in the same way that there are different types of preaching...

one can preach the love of God in the church, or one can preach through their lives..the latter is of course the better option...

pasayloa lang pud tawn tong mga Catekista bai nga murag nanghadlok sa mga bata about sa Impyerno...
just like our parents whenever they scare us with the "momo" thought...
they were just thinking about what's best for us...ALTHOUGH, there is really a better way.

[Xian120]

yes i see your point and i happen to be agree with choosing the better options.
the idea of Hell from a Christian's perspective is not to scare Christians in defying God..but should be a result of separation from God out of freewill..
ang sayop lang sa mga nagtudlo is gihimo nga panghadlok

however the point that i am trying to convey is that it is not a forma teaching style of the church. That's all.

and yes there are other means of teaching...
in the same way that there are different types of preaching...

one can preach the love of God in the church, or one can preach through their lives..the latter is of course the better option...

There are better options, it's only that ang mga tawo used na kyo sa idea nga himuong disciplinary tool ang concept of heaven and hell, that's why kasagaran dili mka imagine ug laing pamaagi or nagtuo jud nga walay laing paagi kundi kana ra.. i believe it's time to shift our paradigms.. parihas sauna, spare the rod spoil the child jud ilang mentality kay mao man ang mga naandan sa mga tawo, they cant imagine discipline without spanking or some kind of corporal punishment, but now nakita na sa mga tawo nga there are in fact better humane options, we can in fact spare the rod..

- - - Updated - - -

pasensya nka nko @noy, kay para nko big deal jud kaayo ning child rearing.. Crucial jud kayo para nko ang stage nga pagkabata, 'coz we all know nga mao man gud na ang pina ka significant nga stage nga mkapahimo nto sa atong pagka kita when we grow up. that's why any form of teaching that poses a threat to a child's mental development dili jud ko mo uyon ana..

[noy]

There are better options, it's only that ang mga tawo used na kyo sa idea nga himuong disciplinary tool ang concept of heaven and hell, that's why kasagaran dili mka imagine ug laing pamaagi or nagtuo jud nga walay laing paagi kundi kana ra.. i believe it's time to shift our paradigms.. parihas sauna, spare the rod spoil the child jud ilang mentality kay mao man ang mga naandan sa mga tawo, they cant imagine discipline without spanking or some kind of corporal punishment, but now nakita na sa mga tawo nga there are in fact better humane options, we can in fact spare the rod..

mao..kasabut jud ko sa imung punto bai..tungod kay naandan na it doesn't mean nga insakto...
however, improper way of teaching does not at all take away the possibility that Heaven and Hell or God exists diba?
and mao ako lang gi stress out diri nga wala nagtudlo ang Church ana although naay pari,madre,catechista or simple nga Kristyano
mugamit ana nga teaching style...because for them mas dali guro ipasabut sa mga tao esp sa mga bata...
ang ako lang, is pasensyahe nalang tong mga nag-una kay lahi pud ilang stylr, wa natay mabuhat ato...
ang atong mabuhat is to not make the same mistakes they did...and look for a better option or way of teaching...
like sa pagpanglatos sa mga bata...kung sa una tan-aw nila effective to...well not necessarily sa ato
same pud sa pag introduce sa mga bata about God's Love, Heaven and Hell etc...
naa puy evolution ang pag teach sa Catechism...

pero parehas ta, i don't think it's(scare tactic) the right way of teaching kids about God, Heaven and Hell
and i don't think it is also right not to tell them about it... cguro in a very very light manner lang jud...para di mu freak out ang mga bata..haha
'casue i believe God would rather have a person following Him out of Love and reverence not out of fear for Hell.

and like the picture you posted with a caption "sometimes unconditional Love means throwing a soul to Hell"
it is evident that whoever made that caption have had confusions about Hell and God's Love..which is one of the
negative results of scare tactic or not being introduced to the idea at all...most of the times, a person would just end up getting
a different and opposite idea.

pasensya nka nko @noy, kay para nko big deal jud kaayo ning child rearing.. Crucial jud kayo para nko ang stage nga pagkabata, 'coz we all know nga mao man gud na ang pina ka significant nga stage nga mkapahimo nto sa atong pagka kita when we grow up. that's why any form of teaching that poses a threat to a child's mental development dili jud ko mo uyon ana..

i share the same sentiment, Kids are very FRAGILE.
that's why we have to be careful with them...
childhood experiences often if not always pre-determines whatever point of view, attitude, traits etc we may have in the future..

however, if you're suggesting to not let kids know about Hell or God, murag lahi pud na kay
murag mahug tag profiling the kid for Atheism..hehehe... (but i think this is not the case)
murag ang imung point is just to have a better way of teaching...and we can both agree on that.

[Xian120]

mao..kasabut jud ko sa imung punto bai..tungod kay naandan na it doesn't mean nga insakto...
however, improper way of teaching does not at all take away the possibility that Heaven and Hell or God exists diba?
and mao ako lang gi stress out diri nga wala nagtudlo ang Church ana although naay pari,madre,catechista or simple nga Kristyano
mugamit ana nga teaching style...because for them mas dali guro ipasabut sa mga tao esp sa mga bata...
ang ako lang, is pasensyahe nalang tong mga nag-una kay lahi pud ilang stylr, wa natay mabuhat ato...
ang atong mabuhat is to not make the same mistakes they did...and look for a better option or way of teaching...
like sa pagpanglatos sa mga bata...kung sa una tan-aw nila effective to...well not necessarily sa ato
same pud sa pag introduce sa mga bata about God's Love, Heaven and Hell etc...
naa puy evolution ang pag teach sa Catechism...

pero parehas ta, i don't think it's(scare tactic) the right way of teaching kids about God, Heaven and Hell
and i don't think it is also right not to tell them about it... cguro in a very very light manner lang jud...para di mu freak out ang mga bata..haha
'casue i believe God would rather have a person following Him out of Love and reverence not out of fear for Hell.

and like the picture you posted with a caption "sometimes unconditional Love means throwing a soul to Hell"
it is evident that whoever made that caption have had confusions about Hell and God's Love..which is one of the
negative results of scare tactic or not being introduced to the idea at all...most of the times, a person would just end up getting
a different and opposite idea.

as long as you are teaching the idea of hell and burning forever there bay noy, be it in a light manner or not, mka cause jud na ug discomfort sa huna-huna sa bata.. cguro kong imoha jud na nga itudlo, ari na sa edad kanang mka rason na siya ug sakto, or kanang naa na siyay panimuot nga tarong, kanang kabaw na siya mag huna2, kanang matagaan na siya ug mga options nga dapat sagupon.. case in point bay noy., kong ang bata imong patan-awon ug salida nga hadlok2, say, ungo2 dba kasagaran ana nila damanon? we think of it like it's nothing but sa mind sa bata dako kaayo na nga trauma bay noy,. some even cant fully recover depende sa impact sa huna2 sa bata bay noy, damandamanon paman gani nang uban, ang uban dili na molaag sa ngit2, it's good in some way as far as parents are concerned but stuff like that can greatly impact the child as he grows up., but if kong patan-awn nimo nga dako ug kabaw na mag huna2 ang bata, gamay nalang na ilang kahadlok kay kabaw naman sila mo rationalize sa ilang gitan-aw..

im not necessarily rejecting the concept of God or heaven, hell and whatnot.. Options lang jud, at least we give them the chance to choose..

just a sidenote bay noy, in some way Hell is an Oxymor*n to unconditional love.. even humans collectively mustered the will to reject death penalty altogether.. so in some way the quote rings a couple of bells, but us and you never share the same sentiments., to you hell is relevant and essential to the moral growth of man, to us it's not only unnecessary but also quite diabolically disturbing.

i share the same sentiment, Kids are very FRAGILE.
that's why we have to be careful with them...
childhood experiences often if not always pre-determines whatever point of view, attitude, traits etc we may have in the future..

however, if you're suggesting to not let kids know about Hell or God, murag lahi pud na kay
murag mahug tag profiling the kid for Atheism..hehehe... (but i think this is not the case)
murag ang imung point is just to have a better way of teaching...and we can both agree on that.

no i think it is not profiling for Atheism whatsoever.. im just suggesting to give the children options., that's all im meaning to say..

[noy]

as long as you are teaching the idea of hell and burning forever there bay noy, be it in a light manner or not, mka cause jud na ug discomfort sa huna-huna sa bata.. cguro kong imoha jud na nga itudlo, ari na sa edad kanang mka rason na siya ug sakto, or kanang naa na siyay panimuot nga tarong, kanang kabaw na siya mag huna2, kanang matagaan na siya ug mga options nga dapat sagupon.. case in point bay noy., kong ang bata imong patan-awon ug salida nga hadlok2, say, ungo2 dba kasagaran ana nila damanon? we think of it like it's nothing but sa mind sa bata dako kaayo na nga trauma bay noy,. some even cant fully recover depende sa impact sa huna2 sa bata bay noy, damandamanon paman gani nang uban, ang uban dili na molaag sa ngit2, it's good in some way as far as parents are concerned but stuff like that can greatly impact the child as he grows up., but if kong patan-awn nimo nga dako ug kabaw na mag huna2 ang bata, gamay nalang na ilang kahadlok kay kabaw naman sila mo rationalize sa ilang gitan-aw....

yes i agree with you on this bai...at least when the kid reaches the age of reason..
it's the same reason why there are things we couldn't discuss if there are kids around..this part, you've made your point much clearer than it already was.

im not necessarily rejecting the concept of God or heaven, hell and whatnot.. Options lang jud, at least we give them the chance to choose..
....

curious lang ko bai, how do you suggest children are to be taught about God without talking about His adversary?
how are we to tell children God's love without talking about Sin and His sacrifice for our sins?

just a sidenote bay noy, in some way Hell is an Oxymor*n to unconditional love.. even humans collectively mustered the will to reject death penalty altogether.. so in some way the quote rings a couple of bells, but us and you never share the same sentiments., to you hell is relevant and essential to the moral growth of man, to us it's not only unnecessary but also quite diabolically disturbing.

well if you see the concept of hell that way, murag wa jud koy mabuhat ana..hehehe
God's unconditional Love is best understood in repentance and surrendering to God..
unfortunately, with Atheism it's close to impossible in sharing with that understanding
'cause as an Atheist, you don't believe in those things...(you always have the option to experiment by the way, by what you said, you're currently suspending your conclusions, so it's not too late to try the things unknown to you...hehehehe)

anyways, if i may, i don't see Hell as essential to a man's moral growth...otherwise
i'd just be following God's law in fear of Hell. i do not fear Hell as much as i do not fear prison and penalties for not adhering Laws of the Land
i try to follow God and believe He created us not because i fear He might throw me to Hell if i won't but because i believe in Him and i am thankful for He has done. the least i could do is to honor His words and commandments..
Hell is just the result of choosing the other way around..(cause and effect)
in the same way prison,life sentence and other penalties for not abiding by the Land Laws are given to the violators...

mercy and pardon is even given in earthly Prison, how much more with God?
(like i said earlier, the unconditional Love of God is best demonstrated in repentance).

for us who believes in Hell..it is the reality of a soul's final destination, just as real as Prison and penalties for not abiding Laws of the Land.

no i think it is not profiling for Atheism whatsoever.. im just suggesting to give the children options., that's all im meaning to say..

of course! options are good and very important too..as elders of the next generation...we too play some part in their decision making...
in my experience, i've never had that option i think, i grew up with the idea that God is distant and the church is corrupt..plus i've seen some acts that supports the idea as well...
if i hadn't known about Hell when i was a kid...i might have completely abandoned God and maintained hatred towards the church..
and would have grown bitter towards religious people...
well at least for me, that thought about hell...led me to be at least a little more careful with the absolutes...it led me to question more...to try to understand things about God and His Love...honest bai..i too share the same contradictory view between God's love and Hell...
again,i only came to understand a bit more...when i repented....
so now i still believe in Hell but i do not fear it anymore and most of all...i do not try to follow God in fear of it.

in the same way that i thought everytime my dad disciplines or even punishes me is a contradiction to his love for me..
and that i only realized how much my dad loves me when he took me back and forgave me from all my shortcomings..