Kerygma Feast, LOJ, & Bo Sanchez fanatics!

[noy]

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Yeah right. The same forgiving spirit STC and the Catholic mob showed towards those STC students whose only "transgression" was that they were having fun at the beach. Ask yourself this: Why is it that the Catholic hierarchy raises more howls on "issues" like women wearing bikinis on the beach and then helps a convicted child rapist by re-assigning him to a different parish? It's not a sin for women to wear bikinis and having fun at the beach. That's what beach resorts are there for, for people to let their hair down, kick up their heels and have fun. If that's a sin, then they should ban beach resorts.

you are talking about legalism in the religious community.
what you are saying about the things that are happening within the church are true and is happening today.
in fact, i would even agree with you that their actions are not the actions Jesus would do.
but if you are questioning the religion and faith just because men/people who run it today failed to act accordingly, then that is another story.puro ra ba jud diay bati ang nahitabo sa simbahan bears?

are you suggesting that only people who havent sinned are worthy to be in a congregation/church?
if that's the case no one alive today would be worthy then.
are you saying that only people who never sinned can come to God,
then what hope is their for prostitutes,murderes,all the people who did bad things if one day they would want to do good?
and besides, who hasn't sinned?

Jesus did not even condemn the woman who was caught in the act committing adultery
He said to the people trying to stone her, whoever has not sinned may cast the first stone.
He said i do not condemn you told the woman go and sin no more..it's the type of absolution everyone is after..
whenever we fail, we would always to have another shot.to undo things..to relive life

you however my friend, have already placed such judgement on your brethren, haven't you sinned?

kung ang mga tao sa simbahan mag binuang ug mag inamaw,mag abusar...ug unsa panang mga kabuang gibuhat nila diha...
problema na nila kay silay manubag sa Ginoo..kung makalusot man gani cla sa tawhanon nga hustisya..dili na cla ka ikyas sa kinatas-ang hustisya.
kung maka kita ta ug tao nga makasasala sa una,pero iyang gipakita nga nagbag.o siya.
pero aton syang hukman nga di tinuod iyang pagbasol kay tungod sa iyang sala nga nabuhat.
then kita maoy manubag sa Ginoo ana...

how woud you feel, nga naa kay dakong sayop nga mabuhat unya mangayo kag
chance di najud ka tagaan maski pag kina tinuoray najud nimung pagbasol??
maliipay ka?that's how the world works...

but things with God somehow works differently..a sinner will be forgiven as long as he truly repents...
that's what the church is trying to imitate..
even in our church bears,naay tulisan,maniac,adik,nakapatay ug tao nga mga members...
but because they felt the love of Christ through the acceptance of the church...
karun, naka human nag skwela, nag tarong nas kinabuhi..naa nay tarong trabaho...

had we judged them and turned our backs on them? basin patay na ug ninggrabe na tong ilang kabuang...
how do i know this? 'cause i was one of them.
i too am not worthy to be loved for what i 've done..but God did so, people did so...
so then i was changed.

[Bears Grill]

^^noy, you didn't get my point. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the Catholic hierarchy in the way they responded to these two transgressions. They support, cover up for and protect child molesters and child rapists (remember the Vatican child abuse scandal some years back...and now Fr. Skelton), but condemn to the highest degree bikini-wearing women having fun at the beach. If you can't see the hypocrisy there, then what can I say? You see your religion as the perfect one and that those who are outside it or those who criticize it are "misguided".

You seem to me as someone who hasn't even read the history of your religion. I bet you took everything your priests and parents told you hook, line and sinker. I bet you didn't even bother to conduct textual criticisms on your bible. By the way, do you know how many versions of the bible are there? Did you know if you brought a King James Bible to a Catholic bible study class, you'd be told you brought the wrong bible? What?! You mean there's a wrong and right bible?! Which one's the Word of God? Did you know people killed each other over these disagreements? Did you know that people were burned at the stake by the Catholic Inquisition just for translating the Bible to English? Did you know that the principal burner of these Bible translators was canonized a saint? And did you know which groups of people were fighting in the Thirty Years War? Yes, Protestants versus Catholics...Christians all. Sigh...please let us not march backwards to those "glory days".

Oh, by the way, did you know that the Vatican has announced that the name "Yahweh" will be removed from all references to God? Check this out: No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules. That means the song "You Are Near" will no longer be sung in Sunday Masses. And did you know that, not so long ago, "limbo" was declared by the Vatican as non-existent? Before, the Vatican made it a dogma that the soul of an unbaptized baby goes to a supernatural place called "limbo". And did you know how long ago the dogma of The Assumption was declared by the Vatican? Answer: Nov. 1, 1950. That means, before that, nobody knew where Mary went after she died. Even the Bible didn't mention about Mary's levitation trick. That means, to be a Catholic, the Bible is not the authority but the Catholic institution's interpretation of it. If you don't believe in their dogmas, then you can't be a Catholic.

[noy]

^^You seem to me as someone who hasn't even read the history of your religion. I bet you took everything your priests and parents told you hook, line and sinker. I bet you didn't even bother to conduct textual criticisms on your bible. By the way, do you know how many versions of the bible are there? Did you know if you brought a King James Bible to a Catholic bible study class, you'd be told you brought the wrong bible? What?! You mean there's a wrong and right bible?! Which one's the Word of God? Did you know people killed each other over these disagreements? Did you know that people were burned at the stake by the Catholic Inquisition just for translating the Bible to English? Did you know that the principal burner of these Bible translators was canonized a saint? And did you know which groups of people were fighting in the Thirty Years War? Yes, Protestants versus Catholics...Christians all. Sigh...please let us not march backwards to those "glory days".
.

kung pinusta-anay pa ni bears,pildi ka at least in most part...
i was baptized by tradition and not by faith.
my parents didn't say a word about the bible.they did talk about God but in a way that is confusing...
i was taught to pray but didn;t really understood back then why i should
as a coclusion,i could never really say i was raised in a Christian home..

i grew up looking at hypocrites,church leaders nga grabeh ka libakira,
observed youth camps that are not really Christ centered..
there were rumors that my aunt was a mistress of a priest..
akong mga barkada nga pating kaau served as an altar boy...
ang mga member sa church grabe ka legaslistic to the point nga self-righteous na and condemning na
mga pari kay sikat kaau...sinilbihan, nice ug wheels....murag Ginoo kung i treat..
musimba ra ko sa una kung kuyog sa uyab...

as i grew up,yes kahibaw ko nga ang catholics ug mga protestant sa una kay nagpinatyanay...kadtong panahon sa crusade sa una grabeh pud ang patay...that discouraged me as well, BIG TIME!
so to sum it up kay i was not a fan of Christianity during my youth, espically Catholicism.
plus, apilan pag binugoy,adik2x..ug uban pang bisyo...aw wala najud ig kita ang Ginoo sa akong kinabuhi...
worse is, i always seem to find a way to associate church goers,servants,most especially leaders to hypocricy.

so no, i was not at all a Christian when i was younger..dili pud ko atheist kay motoo man gihapun ko ug Ginoo...

i failed my REED classes in USC when i was still in college 'cause of the above reasons..

however,in the course of life, i was able to prove my POV towards Catholicism and Christianity to be WRONG.
1st, not all priest are malicious,rapist,self-righteous and uban pa, i was blessed to have the oppurtunity ti meet a few who really demonstrates Christ's love in their lives

2nd,not all sisters/nuns act like the how the STC sisters did...(sorry,had to include this to make a point)
mother theresa for one,and i knew some who truly are gentle and compassionate to others..
like the sisters in tabor hills..and sa adoration chapel sa talamban.

3rd.not all Christians,church goers,church servers,members of the church are hypocrites,chismosa,and judgemental..
same concept with not all muslims are suicide bombers...
plus, i have very good Christian friends, who try to practice and display Christ's love in every aspect of their lives..
i did not say succeed at all times but efforts are really visible to the naked eye.

4th, if you believe in the saying that your past does not define the future(bo sanchez wrote about it too,as He was a *** addict before)...then you would understand why
Christians today do not kill each other anymore..'cause somehow,praise the Lord! hahaha...
they have come to their senses that they are brothers and sisters in Christ.
and is it right to pass present judgement based on previous facts? kung ikaw nakasala sa imung asawa/bana
once..but promised and whole heartedly nga nagbag.o na jud..ganahan ka nga di naka tagaan ug chance?
kay once unfaithful ka,you will always be unfaithful?

5th,not all Catholic Churches have specific guidelines regarding what bible to use...
the catholic church group that i attend to is not like that for one and i know others that share the same practice.

6th,if errors were made in the past and were practised by Catholics..like not blessing the body if nagsuicide..
then it's just simply a realization...what do you expect, perfect na jud tanan? mga tao ra pud nang naa diha sa simbahan..mangasayop ra pud na however, this should not be used as an excuse to not strive for perfection,as much as possible,di jud mu undang ug strive..good thing gani naka realize pa..
and regarding sa pagwala sa Yahweh...
wa ko kahibaw ug unsay rason..it could be not to confuse people with Judaism kay Jews also uesd Yahweh to adress God.although i do not agree with it..but they must have their reasons for chainging it...
however if the reason is righteous or self-righteous then clearly i am in no position to judge on that..
however i could ask some questions if ing ana jud na siya ka big deal? hehe...but again, i personally wouldn't agree on that. but then again..that is gonna be considered as minor doctrine.

7th.about sa mga sala ug scandals sa church leaders nga gi conceal sa church...
problema na na sa nagconceal..kung himuon na nimung basis sa imu paghukom sa entire catholic church...
murag layo ra jud na sa tinuod..kung naa kay igsoon nga buang,is it right to conclude nga kamu tanan sa inyong pamilya buang pud?

i could sight more examples bai why my POV towards Christiany and Catholicism was changed..but kana lang usa kay perti nang taasa...
it is not right to generalize bai kay after all maski pag di ka motoo sa giingun sa bible nga love you neighbors as yourself...
you are violating the golden rule nga do not do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you...
ganahan ka nga people would accuse your whole family for something because a member failed to act accordingly?
for sure you woudn't agree with that concept either.

in the Entire Christian Community both bad and good people exist.
the just and unjust,the faithful and unfaithful..
righteous and the self-righteous so on and so forth
and yes hypocrites truly exist as well..

i just hope that you are not gonna dwell too much with the other side of the church bears
not in the sense,nga walay buhaton if there;s injustice..you can sue them or us if there's a case..hehehe..
not dwelling in the sense that it would only stir up hatred and anger and it would not do good to you.
it leads to generalism where you might end up seeing everyone as hypocrites.
if God was true( to be fair with those who do not believe), you can never point fingers
as an excuse for not believing.
now i fully understand why we need to pray and love our enemies and those who persecute us(enemies are not only limitted to people who do evil in the secular world,but also the church members who corrupts Christianity)..

for it is the only way to save ourselves from the sting of hatred and sin caused by anger.
and a chance for them to see what it really means to be a Christian and hopefully a change of heart
i say this not with sarcasm but with the fullness of my heart,God bless you.

and by the way, i may be Catholic but a solely believe that denomination and religion cannot bring us to salvation..
only faith through Jesus and i also do not claim to know everything so i am not in the position to
view others outside my faith and religion to be misguided.even if i do i certainly do not believe that i should either.
however, i am sure about my faith and it is the very core of my life.i hope you can respect and understand me why i stand against your posts againsts Christianity and
Catholicism.

[Bears Grill]

noy, I appreciate very much your sharing of your life story but you need not do that. Remember that my original comment on this thread was that, to me, the participation of Fr. Skelton takes some shine off that prayer rally or whatever you call that event. You responded by saying that forgiveness is the reason why Fr. Skelton is part of that event. So, I replied that if that's the case, I see hypocrisy displayed here, between the unforgiving way the Catholic mob handled those STC students and the forgiving way they handled a convicted rapist. I'm just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. Am I not allowed to do that? Isn't pointing out a hypocrisy what a typical opinion column usually does in the media? If that's considered casting a stone, and since only those free from sin can cast that stone, then we might as well abolish the justice system and ban criticisms.

In other words, over-the-top ra kaayo ang imong tubag sa akong simpleng commentary. I'm merely pointing out what I deem to be hypocrisy. To be so unforgiving towards some teenage girls who were just having fun at the beach and then be so forgiving towards a convicted child molester...I call that a hypocrisy. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I know you agree with me.

[noy]

noy, I appreciate very much your sharing of your life story but you need not do that. Remember that my original comment on this thread was that, to me, the participation of Fr. Skelton takes some shine off that prayer rally or whatever you call that event. You responded by saying that forgiveness is the reason why Fr. Skelton is part of that event. So, I replied that if that's the case, I see hypocrisy displayed here, between the unforgiving way the Catholic mob handled those STC students and the forgiving way they handled a convicted rapist. I'm just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy. Am I not allowed to do that? Isn't pointing out a hypocrisy what a typical opinion column usually does in the media? If that's considered casting a stone, and since only those free from sin can cast that stone, then we might as well abolish the justice system and ban criticisms.

In other words, over-the-top ra kaayo ang imong tubag sa akong simpleng commentary. I'm merely pointing out what I deem to be hypocrisy. To be so unforgiving towards some teenage girls who were just having fun at the beach and then be so forgiving towards a convicted child molester...I call that a hypocrisy. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I know you agree with me.

yep, i agree with you in some way, that hypocricy is not just present in the Catholic or Christian churches but is even unkowingly practised due to legalism..i too may have even been a hyporcite at times ..so hypocricy is really undeniable.
i respect your comments ha, of course you have the right to say kung unsay opinion nimu,in fact i support freedom of expression..what happened is not really what we call a "fair judgement" in comparison with the level of tolerance between the child molesting priest and STC students.
bad news is, there's nothing we can do about it..
good news is, we are not accountable for the actions of whoever sanctioned it..
but another bad news might take place if we hate them for that,'cause hating them is our choice..
and we are gonna be accountable for that.

what started this argument kay kadtong ni ingun ka nga maka daut ang child molester nga priest sa congregation ni Bo sanchez...which is true, but only if that preist concealed what he's done and act as if nothing happened.however,it's another story if He accepted his fault and repented..

hence i took hold on the aspect of judging others..because we do not know what is in the heart of that priest.i know there's no excuse for what he's done.a crime is a crime.i even would have supported for imprisonment kung tinuod jud siya nga nang molestia..but to label him unworthy joining a congregation,given a task as worship leader because of what he's done is again another story.
is pretty judgy as well.so that's why i added...kinsa man diay angayan nato?
if a person is humbled by the mistake committed,openly accepted his fault...don'tyou think he deserve another chance?
at least with God? 'cause after all if di jud siya magtarong gihapun...aw di lang kay
kalibutanong gaba iyang matagamtam but hasta langitnong gaba pa...

with the case of the STC students, i am 100% with you on that, the sisters reactions were exagerated...
that's what happens when people see God's commandments in black and white
resulting to legalism. some people in the church tend to be self righteous and judgemental.
these things also exist in the secular world,hence church goers are often labeled as "hypocrites"technically prehas ra tanan naay sayop, but of course,tungod kay ang church man gud kay moral institution so kasabut ko nganu ma highlight..
but please do not dwell on them...kay kita ray madaut ana...
i almost trashed God because of the bad things happening in the church...
i wouldn't have known that life could be so wonderful..
having this faith bears, has made life worth living.

i know i might have overreacted, my apologies

[pridi]

This is a very healthy discussion!!! But I have a question lang to Bears Grill's comment about
"I'm merely pointing out what I deem to be hypocrisy." Correct me if I'm wrong when you say to call a spade a spade....

Is USC hypocrite with its teachings when the USC Scandal came out in the late 90's with the girl wearing the USC uniform?
Is Ateneo hypocrite with its teachings when Robert Blair Carabuena spat the head of the MMDA officer?

Would it be fair to tag along everyone from USC and Ateneo as an organization?

Maski unsa ka nindot sa usa ka grupo (based on their claim),if ang isa ka member kay mo buhat ug bati, walay mabuhat ang grupo ana kay batasan naman gud sa tao ang na involved. Maski unsa ka nindot sa Life Insurance company, kung ang isa ka bag-o nga ahente kay idagan ang kwarta sa iyang prospect, dili na control sa insurance company ang batasan sa ilang agent, and neither can't I say nga hypocrite cla nga kumpanya kay tungod sa isa ka empleyado...

[Bears Grill]

^^ You don't get the point. This will be the last time I'm repeating this kay kapoy na kaayo ug balik balik.

If you have an institution that was so unforgiving towards a group of young girls whose only "transgression" was having fun at the beach (a place where wearing bikinis is really quite normal) and yet be so passionate in its defense of a child molester....what do you call that? Di ba hypocrite tawag nimo ana? That was the public stance of the Catholic hierarchy on both issues.

Don't blame me for making that observation. I'm not the only one making that point. It's clear that a lot in the Philippines and around the world are making this exact same point, with regards to other issues. What do you think the people around the world thought about the Catholic hierarchy's covering up for pedophile priests and its declaration of war on condoms? I'm the last person with this opinion you should be worrying about. You should attack everyone with this same opinion. The mature way for the Catholic hierarchy to approach this problem is simply to own up to its responsibilities and clean up its act...not to shoot down every messenger of bad news.

[SioDenz]

Niabot nman gud mud debate ngari

Maguol si Bo Sanchez ani ninyu..hehe

Bitaw, from what i just read sa Wiki, kini diay LOJ religious community diay ni ug dili religion. So murag same diay ni kang Bo Sanchez ug kang Bro Mike Velarde? Hope maka lamdag ang uban nga followers ngari.

[noy]

both groups are best known to be a catholic charismatic community sio..so prehas ra cla in the sense that LOJ and El shaddai are both charismatic groups...
it can either be linked to a specific parish or not..
mike velarde's church group known as el shaddai is just one of the many catholic charismatic communities..
YFC and CFC, ug uban pa...even the campus ministries are considered to be a charismatic church group as well...

[pridi]

^^ You don't get the point. This will be the last time I'm repeating this kay kapoy na kaayo ug balik balik.

If you have an institution that was so unforgiving towards a group of young girls whose only "transgression" was having fun at the beach (a place where wearing bikinis is really quite normal) and yet be so passionate in its defense of a child molester....what do you call that? Di ba hypocrite tawag nimo ana? That was the public stance of the Catholic hierarchy on both issues.

Don't blame me for making that observation. I'm not the only one making that point. It's clear that a lot in the Philippines and around the world are making this exact same point, with regards to other issues. What do you think the people around the world thought about the Catholic hierarchy's covering up for pedophile priests and its declaration of war on condoms? I'm the last person with this opinion you should be worrying about. You should attack everyone with this same opinion. The mature way for the Catholic hierarchy to approach this problem is simply to own up to its responsibilities and clean up its act...not to shoot down every messenger of bad news.

you would probably won't get our point and we can't see your point as well because we are looking at different perspectives.... If I remember it correctly your comment started about a certain priest joining along Bo Sanchez's activity but that priest had certain personal issues, and this time, you have shifted it to the issue about the STC incident.

The way I see your point is that the Catholics (thru its religious leaders) are hypocrite most specially because of their past, but the thread was started not to discuss the religion's past I guess? How about creating a different thread stating that "Catholic Hierarchy is just pure Hypocrisy" but not on this thread. Respect begets respect.