MERGED: MILF-GRP Peace Process, Related Issues and Developments

[peewee_toot]

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Unsay dapat sa MILF...all-out-war OR all-out-justice?

to achieve the latter, the former should be done first...

[ghostie2472]

The question is: How can an "all-out-justice" be obtained when the other party wants "all-out-war"?

[THE LAST CLONE]

FFS kill them all.!

[f3a_champ]

all-out-justice.. but these days, in order to achieve all-out-justice, all-out-war should be done first...

I agree.....

[hlongimanus]

The question is: How can an "all-out-justice" be obtained when the other party wants "all-out-war"?

good point there...

[rescyth]

kapila kaha ni mag pailad atong gobyerno noh?

[gareb]

My point there is even if there's a standing peace talk we can't avoid spending money for the military because any time either of the opposing sides could cross the line and war could break out. We take their camps, then return it to them, then back to square one. Then a line again is crossed, war breaks out, camps taken then returned, and back to square one again. This process could repeat to an endless cycle and each process cost us money. The longer it will take us to stop it the higher the cost.

War is expensive I know but it's the only way. Peace talk is a failure, unless perhaps either one gives up. Why don't we try a different approach instead of doing something that's already failed? Do we expect a different result using the same method?

you are quite right on the first part. that is, after all the purpose of a standing army, and that is what they are trained to do. this is, ironically the same reason why in times of ceasefires, two armed groups that are hostile to each other should never be at the same place at the same time, or we risk open hostilities once more, never mind who fired the first shot.

the main reason why there are peace talks is because of two simple facts that everybody acknowledges;

• the total cost of an all out war (humanitarian, financial, economic, social) far outweighs the resources we can spent if we opt for peace.
• it does not solve underlying reasons why the situation degenerated into an armed conflict to begin with.

before we conclude when if the peace process is a "failure" or a "success", we first need to study what has happened so far. this is something that nobody even tries to do, concluding outright that because the full disarming and the disbandment of the MILF has not happened because of a few years worth of peace talks means that it is a failure.

again, the problem of Mindanao is deep and cannot just be resolved in a few months' worth of talk. there are a lot of loose ends, technicalities, political and economic concessions and considerations to be ironed out. it took GMA 5 years of intense negotiations to come up with the MOA-AD, and that's just a memorandum of agreement. (never mind the fact that it was ill-advised and unconstitutional).

there is progress with the peace talks. what is happening is just that it is being stalled (deliberately?) by certain factions who thinks that peace is not according to their interests.

• you have certain gung-ho portions of the AFP who (intentionally?) disregards the peace protocol and comes out wailing that they lost men because of a blotched operation, and generals who want war so that they can have an increased political clout over the president, as well as budget of course.
• you have certain factions within the MILF who disregards the International Humanitarian Law and the Geneva Conventions, acting like savages, and "lost commands" coddling the Abu Sayaff.

the argument for peace in those parts of Mindanao, fortunately, is greater than these issues.

Rebellion is like cancer. The best way to stop it is to remove is asap. The longer you have it the more the more it spreads and the more complicated it will get. If these rebellions were quelled many years ago those people planning to rebel might get a second thought on taking up arms and would find another avenue to air their grievances. Ako ra pud nang dos centimos.

id rather want to put it this way, Rebellion is like pain from a cancer. the best way to stop the pain is to remove and treat the cancer asap.

there will always be an underlying cause for a rebellion. you can flood Mindanao with all of AFP's batallions, the way you can flood a body with the strongest pain killers. but you do not have any guarantees that the rebellion will not come back in another form sooner or later.

[gareb]

^^ i agree with you bro.
qualify good behavior. are we talking about personal character here?

> brothers because muslims are filipinos as a whole.

> bandits and barbarians are group of people who are robbing | kidnapping | beheading etc.

personal character on the basis of calling them "brothers" if they agree with us and "bandits" if they don't. we judge them according to our own set of standards, disregarding one curious fact that they have their own worldview about things. this is ethnocentric, pure and simple.

you might already be aware of this, since you've had some close dealing with them. there are marked differences between Moros and Filipinos., even over and above religion. please take time to read Prof. David's articles.i'm re-posting this for your convenience. Mindanao from Moro eyes and Solidarity amid Difference. tell me what you think.

i'm just furious how these bandits shouting jihad and independence killing and robbing innocent civilians. and people here sympathize their cause.

oh yes, i am furious too. torture and mutilation is not acceptable. and someone should be held accountable for it. despite AFP's misguided and ill-advised operations, not a single soldier deserves to die the way that those did. in fact i personally don't want anybody to die at all, may it be on the AFP's or the MILF's side.

but despite our anger, we have to maintain a rational mind and not make knee-jerk decisions based on this incident. there are a lot of people's lives and livelihoods at stake, and we do not want the entire conflagration to spill over to the different parts of Mindanao and the entire country. the option of peace is still open and we should exhaust this means to its limit.

to think that we are angry and dismayed about the entire incident, the families of the soldiers and the grief that they are feeling right now would be close to unimaginable. still, 2nd Lt. Erren Khe, the brother of the late Lt. Jose Delfin Khe even remarked that they do not want more blood spilled as too many lives have already been lost. all they want is justice, but through the right process, the legal process.

and i forgot ur color is green

the color of my username is inconsequential. what matter is sobriety and respect here in the forums, that we can hopefully bring outside on this issue.

[gareb]

LOL... This is sooo NOT TRUE! It's like sayin death penalty has been done and it hasn't worked.. Do you see the striking similarity?

Tinuod bai ila mga myembro naa ra sa palibot, pero maglisod jud sila kung walay kampo. Besides ang Erap Formula was not fully implemented till the end because his term was cut short.. Kung gipadayon pa lang ang Erap formula, it's very possible nagstart na unta ang development sa mga affected areas..

Isa pa sa akong na remember, during the all-out-war, daghan mga MILF nag surrender almost on a daily basis and this is not an overstatement. I myself is a witness of the all-out-war kay taga dinhi ko sa Lanao..

Kabalo ba mo what really happened in 2000? Kabalo ba mo what triggered the all-out-war? Palihug ayaw ninyo e compare ang situation karon sa Abarka ug Sibugay sa sitwasyon during Erap's time...

Even though i don't like Erap as president, but as commander-in-chief, i have to admit that his formula did work out here in mindanao, it's just that it was not carried on till completion by the next administration.. Grabe ang lobbying sa mga Lakas-Kampi Moro politicians kay GMA to go back to the "negotiating table".. Sayang kaayo ang opportunity that For the past 30 years that was only the time (between 2000 until 2002) where the Philippine Government through the AFP took control almost 100% of Mindanao... When Pandak's admin opted to go back to peace talks, many of the 46 camps were given back to the rebels..

that's a very interesting observation, which is true in many respects. Erap indeed attained almost near-victory against the MILF. which gained him his popularity among the people of Mindanao who saw the MILF as a threat to their existence. your observation is also correct that during GMA's term, there was a resurgence of the MILF as the ceasefire was imposed during the peace talks, giving everyone the idea that the MILF used the ceasefire to regroup (which was also quite correct).

the one thing that's off about the entire observation is how the MILF is viewed. as usual, the MILF still is seen as a separate entity apart from the whole Muslim communities, when in fact it is supported by it (logistics, personnel, etc). the MILF militants surrendered and disbanded and went back to their families, only to take arms again when the situation arose, perhaps this time bringing along sons radicalized by the death of their fathers out of the previous war.

the "disband-regroup" strategy is one of the reasons why i agree with Prof. David when he said that we cannot solve this problem militarily without resorting to genocide, as we have to annihilate entire communities so that they can no longer offer support to the militants, as well as future sons to wage a war.

so what does one do to avoid genocide, after almost destroying the few remaining dregs of the enemy? make peace. this is what exactly Gloria did as she did not have any other choice.

it complemented Erap's war, actually, if you come to think of it. Erap wanted to reduce the MILF to a manageable size enough to bring them to the negotiation table. too big, and the MILF can wreak havoc to his government if it proves that he cannot give them what they want under the peace process. eventually Erap will go back to the negotiating table when he feels that he has the upper hand to force the MILF to sign a final peace agreement to end hostilities forever, as he too cannot afford a genocide in his hands. but too bad his term was cut short.

so it seems now that Gloria was just picking out where Erap left off, setting in motion the traditional anti-insurgency tactic of "pound em and make peace with em".

which unfortunately, have never been proven to work. especially in Mindanao.

[Zebastian rella]

Oman report: Aquino OK



The ARMM territory has a huge Catholic/Christian population already. Imagine forcing them to submit to Shariah law and accept their status as second class citizens. No doubt we will see an exodus of people and refugee centers will have to be set up along the "border". What's more? It's not a guarantee that the MILF will lay down their arms, but rather, use the newly acquired territory as a staging point to launch their attacks towards neighboring provinces. AFP will not be able to do anything. The whole Mindanao will become another East Timor.