Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[How'sThat?]

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let examine the word faith in Hebrew;

The Hebrew word for faith is אמונה (emunah - Strong's #530) and is an action oriented word meaning "support". This is important because the Western concept of faith places the action on the one you have faith in, such as "faith in God". But, the Hebrew word אמונה places the action on the one who "supports God". It is not a knowing that God will act, but rather I will do what I can to support God. This idea of support for the word emunah can be seen in Exodus 17:12.


But Moses' hands grew weary; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it, and Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; so his hands were steady (emunah)until the going down of the sun. It is the support/emunah of Aaron and Hur that held of Moses' arms, not the support/emunah of Moses. When we say "I have faith in God", we should be thinking "I will do what I can to support God".

source; Biblical Hebrew E-Magazine

ang idea man gud ani nila about faith is kanang emotion ba. mo stimulate sila og emotion og ilang e point didto sa ginoo. so mao na ilang pagtoo.

Si James gi klaro jud niya kay Jew baya na si James nga Faith w/o work is dead.

[ketllac]

ang idea man gud ani nila about faith is kanang emotion ba. mo stimulate sila og emotion og ilang e point didto sa ginoo. so mao na ilang pagtoo.

Si James gi klaro jud niya kay Jew baya na si James nga Faith w/o work is dead.

sakto gyud bai.

ilaha man gud explanation bai kay kung naa ka faith mo resulta na sa maayong buhat and after ang maayong buhat sa faith. whereas sa atoa after ug before, faith ug work mag uban na, or nag uban na .. kay kung i- trace ang karaang linguahe sa hebrew ug aramaic mahibaw-an nato nga dili primarily belief ang iyaha meaning kundili steadfastness...di ba connotes action dili mental/emotional states lang nga mo resulta automatic sa maayong buhat? kana lang kang James klaro na kaayo nga involve ug good works gyud..

ambot unsaon ni napoleon pag refute ana akoang mga argumento nga dili mismo sa katoliko, gikan gyud sa neutral whereas sa iyaha si Strong nga nag too sola fide..

[marine77]

Bro, duna baya bayad ang salvation ... hahaha ... pangutan-a si Quiboloy, Eli soriano, mga pastor sa born again, INC, ug uban pa .. tan-awa: ug dili mohatag sa Tithing .. dili maluwas!

Katoliko ra man ang wala mo enforced ug Tithing .. mao nga hangtod karon, beintsengko beintsengko lang gihapon ang ihulog sa sibot ... usahay gani .. simba lang walay hatag hatag ...

wala mana kinahanglana sa Ginoo ang imong kwarta dodong kay kuwang raman gani na tingali nimo---
but ang imo mang kasing2 maoy mo matter para sa iya kung unsa kadako ang imong gikatabang para sa maayo nga buluhaton nga pagpakatag sa kaayuhan bisag sinsiyo ra imong mahatag.

Think of this daw, kung sa inom or gara2 bisan pa tingali ug mangutang ka para lang naay makita sa mga tawo or imong barkada nga naa kay kaya but when it comes para sa Ginoo, sinsiyo ra jud tawn imong makuot? hehehheeh...okay sad na para nimo---k ra dong kasabot rako nimo nga wla paka kasabot about ana.

[marine77]

ang idea man gud ani nila about faith is kanang emotion ba. mo stimulate sila og emotion og ilang e point didto sa ginoo. so mao na ilang pagtoo.

Si James gi klaro jud niya kay Jew baya na si James nga Faith w/o work is dead.

then sa imong gisulti kung nakasabot ka, gituman na nimo ang imong faith + works?
wala juy conflict kung sabton nimo maayo ang logic about that saving faith--dili man pasabot nga kung duna kay faith magpuyo naka kay automatic nga moresulta ug good works. Ang issue diri kay ang means man sa salvation which is wala lagi labot ang works! kay kung apilan nato ug works para ta maluwas, kitang tanan tingali walay malangit tungod kay pakyas nata tanan sa gi require sa Ginoo bisan sa 10 commandments lang. Karon, unsa man ang atong basihan nga makaingon ta nga ang good works nga atong gibuhat dawaton sa Ginoo nga kung buot hunahunaon perfect bayang Ginoo? then wala nalang diay unta niya ihatag iyang bugtong anak nga magpakamatay ug maoy nahimong replacement sa atua nga mga silutanan?

Mao bitaw giingon diha nga "FOR by GRACE are ye saved through faith, it is a GIFT of GOD, not of works lest any man should boast." grasya sa ginoo na nga maangkon nato ang kaluwasan pinaagi sa pagtuo (genuine faith), dili na kumedya2 nga klase sa faith ang gi-require diha!

okay?

[wlcsp]

naa kay pagtuo nya way buhat '''useless""" patay ang pagtuo kon way buhat""patay ang buhat nga way pagtuo,,

[marine77]

ANI NALANG BROD!

Ang kani gud klase sa FAITH sa mga tinuoray nga Christians, moresulta man gud ni ug pagkamatarung. Dunay dakong kalahian between being righteous ug doing good works for the sake of showing. Mamahimo lang ang usa ka tawo nga righteous kung NAHINLOAN na sya sa Ginoo while kaning doing good works kay pwede ni sya buhaton sa believer ug unbeliever. Ang usa ka tawo nga corrupt or druglord, pwede man makabuhat ug good works like charity or any donation then ipakulit jud na nila ilang name dayon para maila sa katawhan nga he's doing good works pero ang iyang motive or kasing2 is not driven by righteousness. diba?

Then duna say duha ka klase nga faith----FAITH sa believer ug sa Unbeliever! moingon ta nga nagtuo man pud mi sa Ginoong Hesus but to what degree ang atong pagtuo? when we say we BELIEVE, meaning, we've put our trust totally sa iyaha, thats TRUE FAITH! example: monobloc chair, kung ang atong pagtuo nga lig-on na sya nga klase, then even motungtong ta ana dili ta mahadlok or makuyawan nga mabali kay 100% man ang atong gihatag nga pagtuo!

So duha ka klase ang pagtuo ug binuhatan diay. Pero kung atong hisgutan kung UNSA JUD ang klase sa pagtuo nga makaluwas, kato ra jud ang pagtuo nga tinuoray nga moresulta ug buhat ug maayo. Dili kay ang pagtuo nga piki + bisan unsa pa nga klase sa good works buhaton.

[marine77]

Para nako brad---

Ang experience ni Apostle Paul lahi sa kay James, maingon nato nga taas ug level ang pagtuo ni Paul thats why in ana ang iyahang teaching. Sa kang James pud kay wala man sya maka experience parehas kang Paul, mao pud na ang iyaha para ma prove jud tinuod ang imong pagtuo kung unsa nga klase.

Walay problema ang teachings ni Apostle James ug samot na ang sa kang Apostle Paul----KANA if we are right with GOD!
pero kung wala ta ma-align diha sa Ginoo, bisan unsa pa nga teachings ang ihatag sa mga apostles, pangitaan gihapon na nato ug buslot para lang atong majustify atong kaugalingon sa pagbuhat sa atong gusto!

[HeartStops]

seriously? fundamentalist points of view?

when all we need is to be rational. of course we need to work it out. gee

[Kenshiro]

The Bible says that we can't be saved by our works, but we will be judged by our works.

It is true, we are not saved by our works, on this point the Scriptures are very clear:

Romans 4:2-6 (NASB)

2 "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"

If a man were to be saved because of his works, he could boast before God. "I've accomplished my own salvation by my works," a man could say. But the Scriptures clearly reveal that we are saved by grace. "Grace" means "free gift," or "unmerited favor."

Ephesians 2:8-9(NASB)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2 Timothy 1:9(NASB)

"who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,"

Titus 3:5(NASB)

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,"

So the Bible clearly teaches us that we are not saved by our works. There is nothing we can do to merit salvation. We are saved by the blood of Christ that was graciously offered for our sin.

And in grateful response to the salvation we have received by grace, Christians are absolutely expected to engage in good works.

Ephesians 2:10(NASB)

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Paul tells us that there are special ministries in the church for the accomplishing of good works.

Ephesians 4:12(NASB)

"for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ."

James reminds Christians that their profession of faith is inadequate without accompanying good words.

James 2:14 - 20(NASB)

14 ¶ "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

Titus 2:14(NASB)

"who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."

Titus 3:1(NASB)

"Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed."

Titus 3:8(NASB)

"This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men."

Titus 3:14(NASB)

"Our people must also learn to engage in good deeds to meet pressing needs, so that they will not be unfruitful."

1 Corinthians 15:58(NASB)

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord."

Hebrews 6:10-12(NASB)

10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 14:13(NASB)

"And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.""

Revelation 20:12(NASB)

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds."

Revelation 22:12(NASB)

""Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done."

Works will not merit salvation, but those who are saved must engage in good works!

[Kenshiro]

seriously? fundamentalist points of view?

when all we need is to be rational. of course we need to work it out. gee

When you are talking about saved only by works that is not fundamentalism.
When you talk about saved only by faith without works in Christ that is not fundamentalism.

Christian fundamentalism is not the same as muslim fundamentalism.

When your talking about terrorist that is not christian fundamentalism.

When your talking about Christian Fundamentalism you are talking about the founders of the reformation or the reformation movement in the 16th century also in the time of the spread of chrisitianity in the time of the apostles. They are the originators of fundamental christianity.

Take credit as well the decline of fundamentalism with false apostate christianity and the rise of cults masking as christianity

You have a good point here

wrong analogy. imo gi design imong analogy to defend your point, its called dishonesty. are you a Christian? damn, i thought Christians are honest people.

kong rotten na ang eggs ilisan og lain nga eggs, kinsa gud tawn nga tao in his right mind mo serve og rotten nga eggs? aw sigoro kamo mga born again Christians kay inyo man ni nga analogy. ka wa pod sense ani nga klase nga analogy. try again.

We dont apply it literally as per say an egg but it literally applies to your justification by good works. Good works(good eggs) cant cancell out bad works(rotten eggs). How do you remove the rotten eggs if you dont confide to faith? How do you take out the rotten eggs you cant all you have to do is add on the good eggs.
There are a lot of people who think they are good or right in their own accord or even a group of people like society or culture.