MERGED: MILF-GRP Peace Process, Related Issues and Developments

[gareb]

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if it’s the only way to attain peace then yes its necessary. Dapat atong ipakita sa ilaha nga ang Mindanao is part of the Philippines, and ang ilang gusto nga mg independent state dili na pwde ug Final na.

if Philippine Government, as well as any of its citizens, wants to lay claim on Mindanao in its entirety, i suggest we first know to what extent we have claims over.

i suggest you read some of Prof. David's articles explaining the entire situation. i'll re-post the links for your convenience. Mindanao from Moro eyes and Solidarity amid Difference

peace talk should be enforced based on agreement’s “Tama” . And that was also the reason why SALAMAT created MILF because they don’t like the agreement done by MNLF and our Government. That’s why after MNLF we are now talking to MILF for peace but then again naa napud breakaway group kay gusto jud nila ug independent state maski kibaw sila nga dili na pwde ihatag sa government. in effect useless ang atong pag peace talk sa ilaha..

that, or you can say that Hashim Salamat had the gift of foresight, seeing beforehand the ultimate failure of ARMM under the limited and accomodationist views of Nur Misuari and the MNLF. this was because the ARMM was created and utilized for a number of functions, least of which was autonomy.

the ARMM indeed became "the arm" by which the national government could "control" the administrative region, by way of warlord politicians. this was also a means of entrenching political machinery to deliver votes come election time, as well as to suppress the MILF via private armies.

Ug usa pa ang gitawag nila nga PINTAKASI nga ikaw mismo ni confirm nga indeed nahitabo na ug syempre mo laban jud na sila sa ilang nga relatives. Isa ni sa rason ngano dili jud unta dapat makig peace talk sa MILF coz they are protecting abu sayyaf and other kidnap for ransom group operating in those area. Proven nana by our men on the ground. For me, dili sila sincere sa peace talk sila mismo ang ng pa dugay sa peace diha..

you are right with the pintakasi part. tactical denial by the MILF does not make the issue go away, unfortunately. we know better.

but the thing with this is that we should no be tied up to this issue as the entire thing is bigger than this. this is a small complication to the problem at hand. you cannot expect that the reaction of an entire people is uniform in things like these (as you have suggested with the Misuari-Salamat rift). there will be accomodationists, there will be moderates, there will be revolutionaries/secessionists, there will be extremists, there will be criminals.

the challenge for the MILF is to sort out the people in its ranks, going beyond tribal/filial affiliations and punish wrong doers. this is hard as the MILF is a type "revolutionary" government with floating institutions and it's not quite imaginable for any sort of a civil society to exists. this is doubly hard because despite on the official ceasefire, skirmishes on the ground require every available firepower versus the AFP when it attacks. "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

this is actually an opportunity of the GRP to ask the MILF some explanation on the entire thing, demanding from MILF its sincerity on the peace talks by surrendering these fugitives. at the same time, the GRP should be able to put something new on the table; something that can hopefully settle the entire conflict, or at least push us closer to it.

Walay sincerity sa side sa MILF. Take the case katong mga marines nga g ambush the same location nga g ambush pud ang katong nga special forces recently. And still we want peace talk kay mahal ang nga bala? I beg to disagree.

if indeed it be proven that the MILF is not sincere with the entire peace process, this is simply because the GRP also has not provided for any compromise for peace. instead of compete seccession, the MILF now demands a "sub-state" for the Bangsamoro. has the GRP answered it with any concessions of its own? nothing.

but the MILF knows that it will be defeated in an "all-out war", and it knows that its defeat will not be the defeat of the MILF only, but the entire struggle of the Bangsamoro, with the devastating aftereffects of war. if it will be defeated, another will take its place and the problem is never solved.

the cost of going to war is just one of the many reasons to avoid it. and we have to avoid it to avoid turning that part of Mindanao into a wasteland, something that is slowly happening with another round of skirmishes, something that has happened due to some military tactician's haphazard assessment of the situation, wasting away lives that should no longer be wasted.

[gareb]

peace proccess is useless.....i will go for all out war!

give us new reasons (instead of the tried and tired ones) to go to war.

i agree with you.

those bastards don't want peace anyways.

they're just ruthless bandits and barbarians..

at these modern times..

they're not needed anymore

bandits and barbarians - those were the terms used by the Spanish and the Americans long, long time ago to describe everyone else that fighting for independence and was against their rule: Indio/Filipino, or Moro alike.

perhaps we might have blinded ourselves too much with modernity, not to notice that the terms and ideas that we are using were rooted in the prejudices of our colonizers of ancient past.

and not learning the lessons of our past, we commit the same mistake over and over again.

[butitoy]

Are you guys from the areas that will be affected?

indeed i am.

and i have grown tired reading news and living with it when i was there.

if it can be, the government should finish this chaos ONCE and FOR ALL!

[butitoy]

give us new reasons (instead of the tried and tired ones) to go to war.



bandits and barbarians - those were the terms used by the Spanish and the Americans long, long time ago to describe everyone else that fighting for independence and was against their rule: Indio/Filipino, or Moro alike.

perhaps we might have blinded ourselves too much with modernity, not to notice that the terms and ideas that we are using were rooted in the prejudices of our colonizers of ancient past.

and not learning the lessons of our past, we commit the same mistake over and over again.

are they moros fighting for independence?

the hell if they are!

is kidnapping part of the strategy to acquire independence?
is beheading civilians and religious persons part of the strategy to acquire independence?
is bombing civilians part of the strategy to acquire independence?

and how many senators | congressman | governors in the Philippine history hav they already had?

seen progress ? or just raise of private armies?


have u been to south cotabato and traveled north?

havent u seen the check points by the private armies as if they are not in the philippines

[gareb]

are they moros fighting for independence?

the hell if they are!

is kidnapping part of the strategy to acquire independence?
is beheading civilians and religious persons part of the strategy to acquire independence?
is bombing civilians part of the strategy to acquire independence?

and how many senators | congressman | governors in the Philippine history hav they already had?

seen progress ? or just raise of private armies?


have u been to south cotabato and traveled north?

havent u seen the check points by the private armies as if they are not in the philippines

you lump everybody as if all of them are one and the same, the very same way that some of them lump us all under the label "land-grabbers".

aren't there kidnappers, bombers, murderers and every other sort of criminals among us? they can use every possible reason to justify their acts, but does that make them less "criminal"?

yes, i've seen private armies, armed guerillas, hooded and masked bandits burning buses and boats. please do not assume that you are the only one. unlike you, i want to exhaust all possible peaceful means to disarm them and get into the root-cause of the conflict, rather than match their bombs with your bombs.

and no, i am not prepared to commit genocide so i study history in hopes of finding some solutions through peace; the very opposite, it seems of what you have failed to do.

[Sand Man]

indeed i am.

and i have grown tired reading news and living with it when i was there.

if it can be, the government should finish this chaos ONCE and FOR ALL!

Well, I am just shocked at your short-sightedness.

You must be one of those who benefit from the wars...

[bosin]

exterminate them all!

[dodong69]

Well, I am just shocked at your short-sightedness.

You must be one of those who benefit from the wars...

so,do you really think you can disarmed them by talking with them peacefully?
then good luck! go ahead dude!

[butitoy]

you lump everybody as if all of them are one and the same, the very same way that some of them lump us all under the label "land-grabbers".

am i labeling them all including our peace loving muslim brothers as criminals?
i think u are out of sync.

are u saying as u have posted that all of them are MILF rebels?
cuz i don't. i am ONLY REFERRING to the bandits and their supporters who are currently at weapons reach with the AFP.

aren't there kidnappers, bombers, murderers and every other sort of criminals among us? they can use every possible reason to justify their acts, but does that make them less "criminal"?

now you are putting the militants levels as the city hoodlums and thugs, organized syndicates.gamblers.

WAKE UP! we are talking about the MILF here.don't change the subject. Focus!

yes, i've seen private armies, armed guerillas, hooded and masked bandits burning buses and boats. please do not assume that you are the only one. unlike you, i want to exhaust all possible peaceful means to disarm them and get into the root-cause of the conflict, rather than match their bombs with your bombs.

seen them..yes. have u lived in the place affected by them?

what are u? from LAME CHR?

all possible ways? have'nt the government HAVE HAD GIVEN it?
and what ? violate the agreements? are you reading news?

tell me, what's the root cause of their rebellion?
for all i know it's all about the money..

damn government is playing with it because generals and politicians are making money out of it.

buying surplus 105mm at 2-3k ( as old abs cbn | gma news broadcast it ) then liquidate it at 7k plus each x 10 rounds a day

mayors doing doubleface to get revenue from kidnappings

and no, i am not prepared to commit genocide so i study history in hopes of finding some solutions through peace; the very opposite, it seems of what you have failed to do.

genocide? are u out of ur mind? what's this Crotia? Bosnia-herzegovina?

u are the one talking about genocide here. i mere talking about ending the chaos by totally ending the armed bandits

i am not talking about eradication of local populace.

Government should at the first place secure the people an its republic represented by ensuring peace thru

give the proper services < questionable

proper settlement < land | toiling lands | house < questionable

ampatuans are landlords of their province, owning lands more than they should have

and have a non-corrupt AFP to protect its constituents.


according to Zun-Tsu

to protect peace, we must be ready for war.

[dodong69]

btw gareb,emow called me first pathetic but i got the infraction?