Tallo leaves Ateneo: Right or Wrong Move?

[Jumperman]

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I totally understand where you are coming from sir. I only hope Mark Jayven will not let this big brouhaha become a big distraction and affect him too much and that he will continue to strive to make it to the pros. I really believe he can be as big a contributor as Kiefer Ravena is to Ateneo right now for some other team. I also hope that all those conspiracy theories as to the real reason behind the departure are a fallacy, even if he does somehow end up becoming an NU Bulldog.

It's situations like these that get you thinking that the best thing that could happen for Cebu basketball is if an alumnus from each Cebu school decides he/she wants to be the local Manny Pangilinan and fund the basketball team so that the facilities and the coaches/trainining staff will be as top-notch as the ones here in Manila. That way, our best talents (like Mark Jayven) will want to stay in Cebu, the CESAFI will be even more competent and become at-par with the UAAP or the NCAA, and the PCCL will become THE league to watch (it should become our local version of March Madness) and the arrogant coaches from Manila will no longer say that they aren't really taking the PCCL tourney very seriously.

[icon_king]

I don't think gi-initan siya. Just ask Nico Salva how many pairs of pants he gave Macmac.

I don't think bugero sad si Macmac. I haven't heard any such things. It seems like impatient ra gyud, especially ang papa.

High School stars are a dime a dozen. Making the transition to a college star is a whole different ballgame. Murag someone in the Tallo family couldn't wait for that so ni-gamble na lang ug laing gameplane. The Ateneo program will survive Tallo's departure. For the kid's sake I hope his career does as well.

maybe because he is too eager to show his stuff. I think he is impatient indeed. If only he could have wait for his time. I agree nga lahi gyud ang sa high school to college. Bisag unsa ka ka maayo balik gyud ka sa square one ug kinahanglan mu fit ka sa program. Definitely they will survive, Ateneo has a Good program and they can live with it. So meaning leaving this team makes Tallo's boy a coward?

[bb2]

I totally understand where you are coming from sir. I only hope Mark Jayven will not let this big brouhaha become a big distraction and affect him too much and that he will continue to strive to make it to the pros. I really believe he can be as big a contributor as Kiefer Ravena is to Ateneo right now for some other team. I also hope that all those conspiracy theories as to the real reason behind the departure are a fallacy, even if he does somehow end up becoming an NU Bulldog.

It's situations like these that get you thinking that the best thing that could happen for Cebu basketball is if an alumnus from each Cebu school decides he/she wants to be the local Manny Pangilinan and fund the basketball team so that the facilities and the coaches/trainining staff will be as top-notch as the ones here in Manila. That way, our best talents (like Mark Jayven) will want to stay in Cebu, the CESAFI will be even more competent and become at-par with the UAAP or the NCAA, and the PCCL will become THE league to watch (it should become our local version of March Madness) and the arrogant coaches from Manila will no longer say that they aren't really taking the PCCL tourney very seriously.

I believe Tallo is just as talented as Ravena. However I believe talent is not the only thing needed to succeed. Good breaks, exposure to superior competition, having long term plans, etc.

If the Cebuano grown talents do stay where will they eventually play? If they have basketball careers on their minds the best players are in Manila, not a knock on our own local leagues (esp the CESAFI) but that's just a reality. I don't think having a benefactor will change that. The best of the best throughout the Philippines just end up playing in Manila. 2 examples of Cebuano superstars: Hontiveros did not take that route and some say if he did leave for (imperial) Manila earlier his star would have shown brighter in the PBA. Duhig tried his hand in Manila and did not succeed.

Maybe sometimes one thinks as mentioned it could be better to be a big fish in a small pond, than a small fry in the ocean?

Re: NU. The offers were there even before "The AWOL". RayRay Parks may not get the go signal to play this year so they need a blue chip to give the program a boost. MacMac could be just that.


Re: Tallo being a coward? I don't think so and I never said so. I just said in the Ateneo program it normally takes time for someone to develop into a star. The Tallos seem not to want to have to wait for that.

From a talent point of view I would like to think that being a coach maybe Mr. Tallo saw something else, like how Ateneo likes a structured pro-like system in their offense and defense. Macmac would have had to change his game to fit that style, another couple of seasons of waiting before to shine? Too long a wait I guess.

[vipvip68]

maybe because he is too eager to show his stuff. I think he is impatient indeed. If only he could have wait for his time. I agree nga lahi gyud ang sa high school to college. Bisag unsa ka ka maayo balik gyud ka sa square one ug kinahanglan mu fit ka sa program. Definitely they will survive, Ateneo has a Good program and they can live with it. So meaning leaving this team makes Tallo's boy a coward?

Maybe na culture shock lang siya and his father. They were used to being the center of attention sa Cebu.

Lisod siguro ug adjust sa ego being so used to being the superstar unya to not get any playing time... its more the dad's ego than the son siguro.

Karon balik nasad siya sa CESAFI?

Basin nag mahay na ning mga Tallo sa ilang decision karon.

[Jumperman]

I meant that it'd be great if provincial talents didn't have to go to Manila and play there to get better and to be recognized as PBA-material and the real competition everyone would be waiting for would be the PCCL. Having a benefactor willing to provide for our teams could spell a huge difference. The future Dondons would be the norm instead of being the exception. Wishful thinking, but in my ideal world that'd be a reality.

Gipa-asa man sad gud sa Ateneo ang mga Tallo. Gipa-larga nila si Mark Jayven para tan-aw sa Ateneo-La Salle game last season kunohay para dili na siya ma-kurat pag-abot sa iyang panahon, gipa-scrimmage2x na nila even before he was part of the team, etc. I don't think all potential recruits enjoy those same benefits, gipa-lamian sad gyud nila. Mao nang confident kaayo ang mga Tallo nga, notwithstanding Kiefer's entry, Mark Jayven would still be seeing court time. They couldn't have been more wrong, hehe.

I don't think it's about having a superstar ego. In all honesty, Mark Jayven is just too good to be kept on the bench the way he was this pre-season. The Tallos knew it and the Ateneo coaching staff knew it, but the latter didn't seem to have any plans of doing anything about it. The Juami Tiongson blueprint (Tiongson is only starting to see substantial PT this pre-season, 2 years since he made the team, and is playing behind Kiefer) will not do any good for Mark Jayven's development. Mark Jayven had to go. The Tallos could've handled it better though. They could've left in amicable terms. Or they shouldn't even have sent him to Ateneo at all. I mean, I - a pedestrian basketball follower - saw this happening almost a full year ago, how much more Mark Anthony Tallo, a veteran coach.

[vipvip68]

Since ni hawa na si Tallo... mao kuno ni ilang i-puli nga recruit..



LOL.

[bb2]

I meant that it'd be great if provincial talents didn't have to go to Manila and play there to get better and to be recognized as PBA-material and the real competition everyone would be waiting for would be the PCCL. Having a benefactor willing to provide for our teams could spell a huge difference. The future Dondons would be the norm instead of being the exception. Wishful thinking, but in my ideal world that'd be a reality.

Gipa-asa man sad gud sa Ateneo ang mga Tallo. Gipa-larga nila si Mark Jayven para tan-aw sa Ateneo-La Salle game last season kunohay para dili na siya ma-kurat pag-abot sa iyang panahon, gipa-scrimmage2x na nila even before he was part of the team, etc. I don't think all potential recruits enjoy those same benefits, gipa-lamian sad gyud nila. Mao nang confident kaayo ang mga Tallo nga, notwithstanding Kiefer's entry, Mark Jayven would still be seeing court time. They couldn't have been more wrong, hehe.

I don't think it's about having a superstar ego. In all honesty, Mark Jayven is just too good to be kept on the bench the way he was this pre-season. The Tallos knew it and the Ateneo coaching staff knew it, but the latter didn't seem to have any plans of doing anything about it. The Juami Tiongson blueprint (Tiongson is only starting to see substantial PT this pre-season, 2 years since he made the team, and is playing behind Kiefer) will not do any good for Mark Jayven's development. Mark Jayven had to go. The Tallos could've handled it better though. They could've left in amicable terms. Or they shouldn't even have sent him to Ateneo at all. I mean, I - a pedestrian basketball follower - saw this happening almost a full year ago, how much more Mark Anthony Tallo, a veteran coach.

You could use the same argument that the spending that Ateneo made on Tallo on trips and training that they normally reserve for sure players in the rotation show that they have plans for Tallo. IIRC Tiongson did not make the team as a rookie, he has spent time on Team B. Tallo was sent straight up to Team A. The only other players that have been given that opportunity in the past 3 years have been named Ravena, Slaughter, Salva, and Buenafe. A pretty good list I would say. Buenafe and Salva did not get that much PT as rookies until the second round of the UAAP. Unlike the PBA where players play until they can barely jump, in the UAAP players graduate (at least from Ateneo ). I think Buanafe and Salva have shown they can be superstars in a system.

Now all we can argue is that the Tallo's claim no plans vs Ateneo had made investments. Ateneo was not given a chance to show their plans. Whether that was a 2 yar or a 2 month plan we will never know.

As for development. Do you know the weight training that MacMac is undergoing? The coaching staff have (actually had) in their minds that MacMac needed to gain about 10-15 lbs of muscle otherwise even smallish guards like RR Garcia and Lester Alvarez would be pushing him around. He had been losing a bit of his flexibility at first but continued training would have brought that back.

I think the problem is you/the Tallo's want the quick way. To showcase Mac-Mac's skill regardless of who he plays for and whatever the system, I guess as a way to the PBA?. Ateneo and Coach Norman is concerned about developing players on a team. Making them better players in a team system. Training individuals so they can part of a great team. Any coach worth his salt will never put an individual player's success over team success. Even talented players learn that in the latter parts of their careers. Look at all the older NBA pros taking pay-cuts and mid-salary exemptions to be on teams wth a shot at the Ring.

It's just a reality that Manila is the center of the Philippine basketball universe. IMHO it would even do more good if a local benefactor uses his resources to make sure local talents get to go to Manila, compete and show their talents. Manila teams have Team Bs that could be in the top4 of the Cebu leagues only because there is a broader talent base. The Manila schools choose from the entire country.

Why not the Cebu schools band together to properly support the Cebu teams when they do make it to the PCCL? Why don't they spend to send teams to play in the Fil-Oil or Fr.Martin Cup since school is out during that time. That will show the potential of Cebu schools and then maybe provincial recruits who would have been on Team Bs of DLSU, FEU, Ateneo would then consider playing for Cebu schools to be closer to home. That would be the logical step to place roots in a long term plan to make Cebu a bball hotbed south of Manila. Have a shortcut benefactor would be short term fix. Like the owner of the Cleveland Cavs said...there are no shortcuts.

Re: PCCL, it is a step in the right direction. the PCCL is only 4-5 years old? It is competing for basketball prestige against leagues that have been their for more than 5 decades. The timing of the UAAP and NCAA seasons pounce on the schools' spirits (peak of student attention), that and the format of the PCCL will always make it "suspect". Knock-out matches will have a hard time developing rivalries. It works for the US NCAA-Final Four because there are already strong fan bases in their respective leagues. Would you spend P5,000 to go to Manila if the UC or UV teams (or whichever college you cane from) made it to the finals of the PCCL? Alumni of Duke and UNC fly across the US to watch the Final Four, even just the Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight.

There was a time when the only matches that made TV airtime profitable were the ADMU vs DLSU matches and the finals, there was a true rivalry. Now there are other mini-rivalries brewing. Eagles vs Falcons (winning streak on the line). Tams vs Archers. etc. That is where the money from TV and ticket sales are. Bisan locally it is always the rivalry games that bring the crowds out.

Bottomline in all honesty can anyone, even Mark Anthony Tallo, say that they expected MacMac to be the starting PG or even a PG with 12-15minutes a game for the "3peat-gunning for a 4peat" UAAP Champions who had expected Buenafe, Salva, Long, Chua back in the line-up (plus now Ravena and Slaughter)?
The Tallos knew the trip would be long the minute they hopped on the Blue Eagle bus, if they wanted immediate PT they should have taken a habal-habal somewhere in Recto or Mendiola. Anyone who thinks otherwise is utterly naive or has the basketball IQ of a doormouse.

[bb2]

One last question.

Did the Tallos reach out to Coach Norman, Manager Paolo, or Mr. Jack Huang to have a talk about their plans for MacMac or did they base their decision solely on the lack of PT in pre-season play?

AFAIK they did not. The only incident that comes even close is the talk that MacMac and Coach Norman in and around the Mapua game. Would it matter to know that MacMac already had a ticket and already made know to some players his plans of leaving even before talking to Norman Black or that Mr. Tallo was just in Manila recently before that (and stayed for free at the ADMU dorm).

Why didn't Mr. Tallo talk to Coach Norman himself? Hadlok siya na di sila magkasinabot? All the opportunities were there to cut cleanly or to find out what the plans were.

It seems I, who is not anyway connected to the Blue Eagles (I am just an Alumni of Ateneo) can find out more about the plans for Tallo were by making a few calls/sending text messages to the right people. Yet the player and father of the player could not find the time to ask the Coach and Manager themselves?

I hope Mrs. Tallo comes back to this thread and clarifies these matters.

[kobe24]

swu daw moduwa c tallo ingon ako migo nga player c yayoy na daw coach

[crossramz]

why wala man choices? i thought is is a poll question. However let me give you my POV. It is a right move.. why? He need experience and exposure. And leaving ateneo was his best opt. Why? read the first post of the thread and you will know.