Tallo leaves Ateneo: Right or Wrong Move?

[bb2]

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If you go through the entire thread and the smorgasbord of posts from all parties, you can really say that Cebuano support is on a whole different plane. With the kind of rabid, foaming-in-the-mouth sense of support we Bisdaks have for our kababayans you'd think we are all fruits of the same loin!

It's totally understandable how people feel that Mark Jayven is throwing away such a big opportunity by quitting the team. As if getting the chance to attend one of the finest institutions in the country for college (and for free) isn't enough, he also had a slot on a 3-peat champion team that could also very well be the Beatles (or ______ insert name of modern-day in-vogue rockstar/group) of Philippine collegiate hoops. People would kill for either of those options and yet here was Mark Jayven who had both given to him but who has now decided that he doesn't want any part of it. What an outrage, right?

While a lot of very solid points have been made by the pro-Ateneo side of the metaphorical fence, given all that we know and all that has been released to us basketball junkies, I have to say that you have to respect the decision made by the Tallos. Perhaps it was not the best one, but it's still a good choice because it was made with Mark Jayven's basketball future in mind. Yes, he shouldn't have left Loyola the way he did. He shouldn't have burned the bridge. We don't know if there were any ulterior motives involved in this saga, but what it ultimately boils down to is that Mark Jayven skipped town MAINLY because he did not get the playing time he WANTED (we don't know for sure if he was PROMISED PT but the point is, he wanted to play). That reason should be good enough. He's a baller, he was born to shoot hoops. To be denied that chance after committing to a school he thought shared his vision of playing on the brightest stage should be frustrating. It may have been a rash decision, but Ateneo should've seen it coming. Knowing it wouldn't be able to accomodate Mark Jayven's talent, the team brass shouldn't have pursued him in the first place.

Ateneo is to today's UAAP what UV used to be in the CESAFI/CAAA in that they would hoard all the best crop of talent year in and year out even if they knew they couldn't possibly give all of them the same exposure and shine. They're practically an All-Star team of Juniors phenoms, most of the guys on the team were highly-touted recruits coming out of HS. Ateneo can afford to reel in all those big fish because today's kids and their parents are smart, they know what an Ateneo degree (and more importantly, an Ateneo connection or network) can do for their boys once they hang their sneakers. That's not to mention all the perks that come with being a Blue Eagle: instant fame on that campus on a hill in Katipunan, training in the US, allowances, the budget for Nike/adidas apparel, the girls! (Jobe Nkemakolam should know) etc.

What Mark Jayven's decision has done (aside from inspiring the wrath of Ateneans among other things) is that it has set a precedent to future prospects that Loyola isn't the only choice out there. If you insist on going to Katipunan for fine education, go a little further to Diliman and play for State U. And ultimately, what it will do is level the playing field. Talent won't stockpile in one place only to rot, and the UAAP will be more competitive than ever. Everybody wins.

If he waited until Norman Black decides that he's ready, it might already be too late. I for one don't totally buy Coach Norman's excuse of "not being ready". I am close friends with Oping Sumalinog from way back in elementary. He made the team as a freshman as well, just like Mark Jayven. We had a conversation back in 2008, his sophomore year, when Ryan Buenafe and Nico Salva first came into the program. Oping said that in practice, he would outplay both freshmen and yet those two guys still got the coach's nod over him. Yes, Buenafe and Salva are great players but I have full faith in Oping's skills too and I believe that he was telling the truth about outplaying them. He said he even thought of moving back to Team Glory B so he wouldn't waste his playing years. He has been a soldier, and yet up to now he still hasn't gotten the heavy minutes. Of course, Oping also likes it in Loyola and perhaps that's why he never thought of bolting out of the school but you can't say that Mark Jayven should share Oping's mentality. They're different players in different circumstances. Oping isn't the only one too, I think someone mentioned somewhere along this thread about Estoesta and Nin Ramz where Nino went home to USC while Estoesta got to "play" only one year in Team A, nailed to the end of the bench in what was considered a "dark age" for Ateneo basketball.

Sure, laugh at Mark Jayven, call him crazy for refusing an Ateneo education. But you have to give him props for showing he has balls and that he isn't intimidated by the glamour of playing for Ateneo. All he wants is to play ball, don't hate him for that.

I agree that it seems the Tallos have a basketball career as an important step. In that case they should have looked at the precedents in the Ateneo program. No rookie except LA Tenorio was given the green light from the get-go.

The Tallos should have enrolled in a school with a lousy record and program so that they could get their suprstar exposure and playing time. However they chose to make use/take advantage of Ateneo's resources for a substantial period, then bail-out on them without giving the actual Season a chance to start. Yes he would have lost a year after if he transferred but that is a risk similar to just bailing on the program that could have given him the exposure and pipeline he needs.

The Ateneo UAAP games rate higher than regular season PBA games and the major Ateneo benefactor will own 3 teams in the PBA. 90% of Ateneans that have applied for the PBA draft in the past 4-5 years have been drafted.

The Tallos are gambling the long-term for the short-term. I hope it pays off.

[gpcortes07]

ni-anha man daw gahapon man siguro si Coach Black ug Trillo sa Cebu pero wala daw nahisgutan si Tallo sa press conference? Non-issue na siguro ni sa Ateneo and both parties can move on freely.

[Jumperman]

I agree that it seems the Tallos have a basketball career as an important step. In that case they should have looked at the precedents in the Ateneo program. No rookie except LA Tenorio was given the green light from the get-go.

The Tallos should have enrolled in a school with a lousy record and program so that they could get their suprstar exposure and playing time. However they chose to make use/take advantage of Ateneo's resources for a substantial period, then bail-out on them without giving the actual Season a chance to start. Yes he would have lost a year after if he transferred but that is a risk similar to just bailing on the program that could have given him the exposure and pipeline he needs.

The Ateneo UAAP games rate higher than regular season PBA games and the major Ateneo benefactor will own 3 teams in the PBA. 90% of Ateneans that have applied for the PBA draft in the past 4-5 years have been drafted.

The Tallos are gambling the long-term for the short-term. I hope it pays off.

It's just Mark Jayven's tough luck that he's entering the program at a time where there's a logjam at the guard positions and at the same time as Kiefer Ravena. You have to admit that the latter is more poised and ready for the UAAP brand of ball than the former (Ravena is a better scorer, Tallo is more of a ball-handler/distributor and Ateneo right now doesn't really need a PURE PG. Observe, they even converted Monfort, a SG trapped in that small frame, into a pseudo-PG).

This whole thing about wanting "instant superstar status" I think has been blown up to over-exaggerated proportions. He wanted PT, not to be a star. And I don't know for sure if there's a UAAP school with a lousy basketball program, it's just that they're lagging behind the high-budget schools in the recruitment wars. Adamson has turned it around the last few years by developing their recruits, players no one really heard of.

I don't want to believe that the Tallos had really just made designs to milk the Ateneo coffers, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's not brand the elder Tallo or Mark Jayven as anything. Let's not call apples oranges with all the conspiracy theories or empty allegations. The only thing we know for sure that happened was that the Tallos grew disenfranchised because of the lack of PT and decided to withdraw Mark Jayven. The only thing he did clearly wrong was the way he left, but we seem to forget that he's just a 16-year old kid whose head was obfuscated by the frustration of being benched. It's not a valid excuse but let's charge it to his immaturity. Let's not say anything that could malign the Tallos. If substantial evidence to all those claims is laid out in the open, let that be proof enough, no more need to rub it in. They're human too, and all that scrutiny from fellow Cebuanos can hurt.

If he plays his cards right, Mark Jayven is a cinch in the PBA. He doesn't need the Ateneo machinery to make it. Unlike Jai Reyes or Macky Escalona, he has skills and tools that are enough in themselves to make it in the big leagues. No need to pull any strings or for a MVP-owned/Ateneo-connected team to draft him. If unheralded guys like Topex Robinson, Chico Lanete, and Lou Gatumbato made it, there's no reason why Mark Jayven can't (not saying he should follow those guys' blueprints to get to the pros though).

[donzzz09]

Balhin nalang ug DLSU para rivalry jd. hehe

[Jumperman]

Nindot lagi unta pero daghan na sad kaayo guards ang La Salle, nag-pundok. Si Atkins ra ang ma-wala next year. Ni-hawa nalang gani si Elorde, ni-balhin sa Ateneo.

Kung nag-huna2x sad sila sa brand sa school, murag pinaka-maayo nga options nga na-bilin nila kay UP (he can leapfrog Mike Gamboa and transferee Gelo Montecastro as lead PG) or UST (can play back-up to Fortuna right away, maybe even leapfrog him if he can develop shooting right away). Daghan na sad kaayo guards sa San Beda gud, apil pa ang anak sa coach. Pwede man sad sa uban NCAA-member schools pero less exposure gyud.

As for the rest of the schools, FEU has RR Garcia and Terrence Romeo so there's no way Tallo has room there. Adamson might be a good choice because the two lead guards Canada and Alvarez are using up their legibility this year and Tallo can slide to the 2-spot in the meantime. He can play in NU and UE as well, because both teams are really talent-starved for this season. Problema lang gyud kay wala siyay ka-tandem and he might not like having that many losses on his resume. Naa man hinuon si Parks sa NU, pwede ra sad. Really up to the Tallos, kung unsa ila gusto para sa ilang anak.

Pero kung wa silay paki basta lang basket ra gyud iya tirada, aw naay daghan ma-pilian oi. Importante ra ma-baid siya nya dili stagnant iyang pag asenso. Bantay nalang gyud sila nga di ma-injured ug ma-baldado kay tabla gyud siya.

[dustin]

good for him, kay as far as i know personal ang hinungdan mao walay playing time si tallo sa ateneo....

And ravina has something to do with it!!!

[bb2]

It's just Mark Jayven's tough luck that he's entering the program at a time where there's a logjam at the guard positions and at the same time as Kiefer Ravena. You have to admit that the latter is more poised and ready for the UAAP brand of ball than the former (Ravena is a better scorer, Tallo is more of a ball-handler/distributor and Ateneo right now doesn't really need a PURE PG. Observe, they even converted Monfort, a SG trapped in that small frame, into a pseudo-PG).

This whole thing about wanting "instant superstar status" I think has been blown up to over-exaggerated proportions. He wanted PT, not to be a star. And I don't know for sure if there's a UAAP school with a lousy basketball program, it's just that they're lagging behind the high-budget schools in the recruitment wars. Adamson has turned it around the last few years by developing their recruits, players no one really heard of.

I don't want to believe that the Tallos had really just made designs to milk the Ateneo coffers, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's not brand the elder Tallo or Mark Jayven as anything. Let's not call apples oranges with all the conspiracy theories or empty allegations. The only thing we know for sure that happened was that the Tallos grew disenfranchised because of the lack of PT and decided to withdraw Mark Jayven. The only thing he did clearly wrong was the way he left, but we seem to forget that he's just a 16-year old kid whose head was obfuscated by the frustration of being benched. It's not a valid excuse but let's charge it to his immaturity. Let's not say anything that could malign the Tallos. If substantial evidence to all those claims is laid out in the open, let that be proof enough, no more need to rub it in. They're human too, and all that scrutiny from fellow Cebuanos can hurt.

If he plays his cards right, Mark Jayven is a cinch in the PBA. He doesn't need the Ateneo machinery to make it. Unlike Jai Reyes or Macky Escalona, he has skills and tools that are enough in themselves to make it in the big leagues. No need to pull any strings or for a MVP-owned/Ateneo-connected team to draft him. If unheralded guys like Topex Robinson, Chico Lanete, and Lou Gatumbato made it, there's no reason why Mark Jayven can't (not saying he should follow those guys' blueprints to get to the pros though).

I have mentioned these are just my thoughts.

I like to try to read between the lines. Take a closer look at Mr. Tallo's statement. He claims Ateneo is still trying to communicate with them, then why as a matter of being gentlemanly has he not picked up the phone and aired it out? He instead chose to write an article in a paper which he knew that chances are people in Ateneo De Manila would not be able to read.

Normal people with problems talk them out, again did Mr. Tallo try to talk to Norman Black, to Paolo Trillo, or to Jack Huang (He has supported the Tallo's through and through in Mac-mac's basketball career and whom he mistakenly mentioned as the Ateneo Alumni Association Cebu president, I think he was about 6 years ago?).

I have talked to some people in the Ateneo community. Based on the Tallo article and what those people have said, either there is a grave misunderstanding or someone is not telling the whole truth. I would hope on the grave misunderstanding and misguided parents but having someone go AWOL calls into question character (of the parent-s?) as well.

Mr. Tallo claims other schools are still interested. He is correct feelers (with offer$) were continually being sent even after the trip to the US. There are many schools that want him and his playing time. There may have been no plans to milk the coffers, but the fact is they have been milked. Unless Ateneo wanted a zero return on their "investment", Tallo was eventually going to get PT. The last rookies who went to the US got into the rotation once the season started.

I apologize for the seeming need to "malign", but Mr. Tallo made the issue and themselves open season when he came out with an "explanation" in the Sunstar. If you read that paper you would think Norman Black and Mr. Jack Huang were not very nice people. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[vipvip68]

Ang mahitabo ani kay si Elorde na hinuon ma tagaan ug playing time ni Coach Norman.

Para nako... dili sayop ang decision nga mu balhin or dili mu balhin.. pero sayop gyud kaayo ang way in which he did it.

1. He did not secure another school to transfer to before he made his move.
2. Gi tarong unta niya pag biya ang school. He should have at least said thank you for the opportunity, the training and the people who helped him along the way.
3. His dad alleged that he was promised playing time but later on in the article said that no specific promise was made on when such playing time will be given.

- Para nako, Mark Tallo was not expecting the competition for playing time sa ADMU. He thought that he would just be given playing time by virtue of his being an all star here in Cebu. He most probably objected and was jealous of why Kiefer , a freshman like him, was given playing time while he was not.

Finally.... i think the whole fiasco was mainly the dad's decision... mark tallo probably told his dad about wanting playing time and the dad made the plea to the coach and the brash decision to pack up and leave because he didnt get what he wanted.

I said before that impatient si Macmac... but now, I think it's the dad whos impatient. Whether his decision turns out to be the right one remains to be seen... but this whole thing could have been handled better.

[Jumperman]

I have mentioned these are just my thoughts.

I like to try to read between the lines. Take a closer look at Mr. Tallo's statement. He claims Ateneo is still trying to communicate with them, then why as a matter of being gentlemanly has he not picked up the phone and aired it out? He instead chose to write an article in a paper which he knew that chances are people in Ateneo De Manila would not be able to read.

Normal people with problems talk them out, again did Mr. Tallo try to talk to Norman Black, to Paolo Trillo, or to Jack Huang (He has supported the Tallo's through and through in Mac-mac's basketball career and whom he mistakenly mentioned as the Ateneo Alumni Association Cebu president, I think he was about 6 years ago?).

I have talked to some people in the Ateneo community. Based on the Tallo article and what those people have said, either there is a grave misunderstanding or someone is not telling the whole truth. I would hope on the grave misunderstanding and misguided parents but having someone go AWOL calls into question character (of the parent-s?) as well.

Mr. Tallo claims other schools are still interested. He is correct feelers (with offer$) were continually being sent even after the trip to the US. There are many schools that want him and his playing time. There may have been no plans to milk the coffers, but the fact is they have been milked. Unless Ateneo wanted a zero return on their "investment", Tallo was eventually going to get PT. The last rookies who went to the US got into the rotation once the season started.

I apologize for the seeming need to "malign", but Mr. Tallo made the issue and themselves open season when he came out with an "explanation" in the Sunstar. If you read that paper you would think Norman Black and Mr. Jack Huang were not very nice people. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Disclaimer: I'm not the Tallos' lawyer or anything, I don't speak for them. Like you sir, I'm just sharing how I see things from my perspective.

The way I see it, the elder Tallo decided to air his side on the local daily because he wanted to clear the air about what really happened from their side of things and not because he wanted to bitch about the whole situation or make the Ateneo brass look like the villains. Coach Norman fired the first shot in the media, so I guess he was just defending his son. To wit:

"I am somewhat disappointed with the information Coach Black has relayed to the press in Manila and in Cebu with regards to how my son left ADMU to return to Cebu. He distorted so many facts that my son came out as the bad guy in the whole situation."

I'm sure the dad also wants this mess behind them so that Mark Jayven can go on with his basketball career so I'd like to think that, because he has now given his side of the story to the public, both Ateneo and the Tallos are now burning up the phone lines in trying to resolve the matter amicably and in private. He said so himself in the letter (that before they choose which school to transfer to they have to fix things with Ateneo first). We won't be privy to all the details, but it might be better that way because it's really their business and like you are implying, things would be a lot smoother if they don't air out what has transpired between them to the public so that no one will come out looking like "not very nice people".

And again, I don't want to think of it as "milking" because as a member of the team Mark Jayven was entitled to join the trip to Las Vegas (but the story about the dad asking to tag along admittedly sounds a little fishy). Perhaps the Tallo frustration dam just broke too late. I don't know for sure, but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[lil' Bon]

Disclaimer: I'm not the Tallos' lawyer or anything, I don't speak for them. Like you sir, I'm just sharing how I see things from my perspective.

The way I see it, the elder Tallo decided to air his side on the local daily because he wanted to clear the air about what really happened from their side of things and not because he wanted to bitch about the whole situation or make the Ateneo brass look like the villains. Coach Norman fired the first shot in the media, so I guess he was just defending his son. To wit:

"I am somewhat disappointed with the information Coach Black has relayed to the press in Manila and in Cebu with regards to how my son left ADMU to return to Cebu. He distorted so many facts that my son came out as the bad guy in the whole situation."

I'm sure the dad also wants this mess behind them so that Mark Jayven can go on with his basketball career so I'd like to think that, because he has now given his side of the story to the public, both Ateneo and the Tallos are now burning up the phone lines in trying to resolve the matter amicably and in private. He said so himself in the letter (that before they choose which school to transfer to they have to fix things with Ateneo first). We won't be privy to all the details, but it might be better that way because it's really their business and like you are implying, things would be a lot smoother if they don't air out what has transpired between them to the public so that no one will come out looking like "not very nice people".

And again, I don't want to think of it as "milking" because as a member of the team Mark Jayven was entitled to join the trip to Las Vegas (but the story about the dad asking to tag along admittedly sounds a little fishy). Perhaps the Tallo frustration dam just broke too late. I don't know for sure, but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

maypag mo balhin sya sa DLSU para another rivalry napud. Ravena vs Tallo